Can you believe this crap?! - Page 4

TheWorldEnds · 07-02-2009

MS is very good at compression, I'll say that.

The Benny (Macho) · 07-02-2009

Well I think most developers are, it's just that for the PS3 there's no need to even try. A BR is likely to be able to fit your game comfortably no matter how much space your game takes up, and it must be pretty great to not really have to worry about that (and I'm sure it is sometimes an issue for 360/multi developers). It doesn't truly mean we're in the era of 50GB games though.

Ricochet · 07-02-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevadu

In this case we all know that the 360 version is going to be on multiple DVDs. It's not like they're sacrificing the PS3 version so it fits on a DVD, because it doesn't. So quit with the sour grapes.

If I remember correctly, the new John Carmack's game RAGE which extremely data heavy. He even complained that the 360 NEEDS at least 3 Game disks to make it playable, the thing is Microsoft wants to use only 2 disks as every disc means more "royalties". (Click here for the news) That's why you don't see a lot of "multi" disc games. So my argument is valid.

Multi-disc in the FF7 comparison was just an early example of what extra "storage" meant for gaming. I didn't think the royalties were an issue as Sony did create the CD's in the first place. With the Blu-Ray at hand, FF13 devs could put way more content into it without having the dilemma to "balance" out both the 360 and PS3. If I remember correctly, Rockstar complained that GTA4 suffered that very same issue thus promoting it's new upcoming game "Agent" to be exclusive for the PS3 (to make it as GTA4 was intended to be).

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Benny (Macho)

Ricochet, if you're really interesting in discussing Square's behaviour then please look here. The thread starts off with a bit of an argument and a few insults, but quickly turns back into a discussion of Square and their biases.

Thanks for the link. Cheers!

LowKey · 07-02-2009

Hahaaa that my thread

LowKey · 07-02-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darth Koth

I don't get what ace is miffed at, both consoles are getting it and by the time they have done fiddling they should be identical

Thats my problem with FF13, the PS3 is capable of so much more, I don't want to play an RPG if it's going to be identical to a 360 version of the game, 360 games suck (from a development stand point) with the exception of gears of war of course, theres so much more they could do on the PS3 version so I say do it. I tired of games that have been dumbed down because theyre released on the 360, and don't even try and tell me that they arent, i don't give a shit what you say, or what "facts" you try and regurgitate at me, games that are released for 360 and ps3 are duller than if they were just for the ps3 due to dev restrictions with data storage on a DVD-9. We are in the next gen people and games need to be bigger and longer. And please don't give me the whole dev cost speech again, cause companies knew what they were getting into with next gen.

Ricochet · 07-02-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by LowKey

Thats my problem with FF13, the PS3 is capable of so don't give a shit what you say, or what "facts" you try and regurgitate at me, games that are released for 360 and ps3 are duller than if they were just for the ps3 due to dev restrictions with data storage on a DVD-9. We are in the next gen people and games need to be bigger and longer. And please don't give me the whole dev cost speech again, cause companies knew what they were getting into with next gen.

True, Guerrilla games told Microsoft that Killzone 2 won't be available to 360 as it needs a huge storage space like Blu-Ray. Even MGS4 had a small "easter" egg with Otacon saying "Huh? Oh, wait! We're on PS3 system! It's a Blu-Ray Disc, dual-layered, too - no need to swap."

The only people who takes the Blu-Ray disc for granted are 3rd party devs or 360 devs. GTA4 was an example of "dumbing" down to fit into a 9GB DVD9 disc. This is what I truly hate about losing exclusives. I don't mind, but I prefer to have timed-exclusives than losing them.

SHADOW · 07-03-2009

[Quietly walks away, curls into a ball, rocks violently, and begins to hyperventilate]

Ricochet · 07-03-2009

[Watches SHADOW slowly dying in the process, then calls the Garbage Disposal Unit for assistance]

The Benny (Macho) · 07-03-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ricochet

True, Guerrilla games told Microsoft that Killzone 2 won't be available to 360 as it needs a huge storage space like Blu-Ray.

That's an odd thing to say. As far as I'm aware Guerilla were under an exclusive development contract with Sony since 2004, and were bought outright by Sony in 2005. Killzone's as exclusive to Sony as Mario is to Nintendo.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LowKey

I tired of games that have been dumbed down because theyre released on the 360, and don't even try and tell me that they arent, i don't give a shit what you say, or what "facts" you try and regurgitate at me

That's very honest of you. "I don't care about reality, I like to believe truths I've made up". Good for you, I guess

Quote:

We are in the next gen people and games need to be bigger and longer. And please don't give me the whole dev cost speech again, cause companies knew what they were getting into with next gen.

I'm less impressed with this part though. It's Sony and Microsoft who pushed for the jump to HD, not developers. Games are often shorter these days, and the huge jump in the cost of making HD assets is a key factor. The audience of gamers hasn't grown that much (at least among the hardcore), so for publishers to make similar amounts of money from games that are more expensive to make, they need to make less game. I think the Escapist's Shamus Young explains it well:

Quote:

In the original Wolfenstein 3D, the "level editor" was a simple little program that let you draw squares on a grid to create gamespace. You could make a playable room in well under a minute. It was laughably simple and primitive by today's standards, but the game was at least forty hours long because the content was so easy to produce. (It would have almost been possible for someone to make levels as fast as you could play them.)

A few years later in the Doom and Duke Nukem 3D era, level design had become slightly more elaborate. It took time to get the textures to line up and make the lighting interesting; that same room of gamespace might take five or ten minutes to produce. With Quake, the bar was raised even higher. Level design was basically 3D modeling, and it might take a whole hour to make the same amount of content.

You can see where this is going. The one hour room gave way to two hours, and eventually led to teams of people working for days to make just a few moments of playable content. Now you have someone designing the level, someone else making unique meshes to decorate the space, a specialized texture artist, and a lot of work being done to set up complex lighting systems, moving machinery, special environmental effects, and all of the other steps needed to take advantage of current-gen graphics engines. That's more than a thousand fold increase in the amount of work required to give players a few seconds of entertainment.

Another option is for the price of all new games to double, triple, or more. Of course, that wouldn't really help either because people still have the same amount of money and would just have to buy less games, which would make things even worse.

Games aren't likely to get much bigger this gen, although things should improve a bit as the generation continues, as developers will be able to reuse engines (cutting costs) and the install bases continue to increase (increasing profits). At some point though (probably the next generation or the one after that) we're going to go through the digital download phase, and even with disc formats being phased out there will likely be a new focus on compression and keeping game sizes relatively small.

Darth Koth · 07-03-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by LowKey

Thats my problem with FF13, the PS3 is capable of so much more, I don't want to play an RPG if it's going to be identical to a 360 version of the game, 360 games suck (from a development stand point) with the exception of gears of war of course, theres so much more they could do on the PS3 version so I say do it. I tired of games that have been dumbed down because theyre released on the 360, and don't even try and tell me that they arent, i don't give a shit what you say, or what "facts" you try and regurgitate at me, games that are released for 360 and ps3 are duller than if they were just for the ps3 due to dev restrictions with data storage on a DVD-9. We are in the next gen people and games need to be bigger and longer. And please don't give me the whole dev cost speech again, cause companies knew what they were getting into with next gen.

yeah I have to say I do find my self thinking how good would this(whatever Game) be if it was PS3 only, but FFXIII won't be a crap game because its on both systems, its still going to be awesome to play just maybe not as awesome as it could be.

07-02-2009	#31
TheWorldEnds WithMe Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Minnesota PS3 Network ID: DonovanTheICEMAN Posts: 1,716	MS is very good at compression, I'll say that. __________________ "Let us descend now unto greater woe." -Inferno, Canto VII

07-02-2009	#32
The Benny (Macho) Complainer of the year Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: United Kingdom PS3 Network ID: Benny_McBoom Xbox Live ID: Benny McBoom Posts: 4,498	Well I think most developers are, it's just that for the PS3 there's no need to even try. A BR is likely to be able to fit your game comfortably no matter how much space your game takes up, and it must be pretty great to not really have to worry about that (and I'm sure it is sometimes an issue for 360/multi developers). It doesn't truly mean we're in the era of 50GB games though. __________________

07-03-2009	#37
SHADOW Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Cal Poly PS3 Network ID: SHADOWsoldier- Posts: 1,447	[Quietly walks away, curls into a ball, rocks violently, and begins to hyperventilate] __________________ To all the fanboys: "Sit down. Take a deep breath. And while you have your mouth open, stick your d*** in it. That way I don't have to hear from you and you can finally get a little satisfaction." (Adam Sessler)

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07-02-2009	#34
LowKey Senior Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Barrie, Ontario, Canada PS3 Network ID: LowKeytheMan Posts: 315	Hahaaa that my thread

07-03-2009	#38
Ricochet Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 28	[Watches SHADOW slowly dying in the process, then calls the Garbage Disposal Unit for assistance]