Now that Ive cooled off....

[jumbo]

Originally posted by Voice
And the point of those quotes was?

In the first one I said I wouldn't say we were a Theocracy.....in the second one I said we weren't a Theocracy.

Same statement, different wording.

If we're pretty close to being a theocracy, that means we AREN'T a Theocracy.

It's pretty easy to comprehend, at least I thought it was.

in the first one you said we're pretty close and then that we ain't.

if it was that easy to comp, i wouln'tve posted it.

[Gabriel013]

Originally posted by Voice

I can't believe that people would agree to make abortion illegal. Ask yourself this question, Your girlfriend is pregnant.....she decides to get an abortion, which of the following would you rather she do?

A: Go to a clinic, in a sterile environment, and have an abortion.

or

B: Go to an alley and have someone shove a coathanger inside her.


My point is, yes, chopping a woman's head off should be illegal...but should a woman's choice to have a baby or not be illegal? no...it shouldn't.

Just the implication that George W. Bush is trying to impose this as an ammendment sickens me....and if you don't agree that it will open the window for other ammendments taking away even more freedom....then we just disagree.

I do agree that people should vote based on their morals and beliefs...that's what makes us America....what I don't agree with is George W. Bush playing the moral/religion card in order to catch the vote of the major playing states in the country.....in relation to the electoral college. The whole middle of the country was Bush...because it's the bible belt.

All I have to say was that was some pretty good ****ing strategy on their part, no matter how dirty it was. We'll see what happens in the next year.

Who knows, maybe PSXExtreme will finally get to have a meet and greet....in Iraq!!!! Except it'll only be the guys over 18 and under 25....in good physical condition.

1) What's wrong with adoption? I think there should have to be a pretty damn good reason for abortion to be the only option. "I don't want it" just doesn't cut it with me.

Why should she want to get rid of your child?
Is it because she doesn't care about you enough to have a child with you? In that case maybe you shouldn't have had sex.
Is it because she wants to put her career above her family? Might I suggests using precautions.

I know there are other reasons for abortions (rape etc) and these I think are just reasons.

2) I don't think George Bush was playing any cards. He simply told is at he saw it and it would seem that a fair few people agreed.

3) I agree that unjustified murder (as in your example) should be illegal but that's just our moral view. Who are we to say that it's wrong. Laws aren't determined by just 1 man. The reason these laws have been passed is because the majority deems them to be just.

Bush wants to outlaw abortion because in his view it's wrong, be it for religious or humanitarian reasons. Will he manage it? Only if the majority decides it is wrong also.

Just look at our recent legal troubles with regards to Fox Hunting.

[dillonthebunny]

im pro abortion. fact is if you made it illegal then back street abortion becomes a reality... oh, it is!

My dads Catholic and they were brought up to believe that abortions were wrong and that condoms were wrong...Hmmmmm

I think first off you have to leave religion out of it

2nd of all you have to take the woman’s situation in to account.

I understand that in a perfect world if the poor raped girl who is forced to have a baby from the incident then it would be great to adopted the baby out of her life if the girl didn’t want it or her situation was that she cant afford to bring it up in today’s society.

And that’s an extreme case if the girl was raped, if it was a loving couple who just weren’t ready for kids and it happens.. well its personal choice. but I know my sister had no choice. she wasn’t raped, she had a decent job... but bring a child up in a single parent situation in a flat in Brixton somewhere, no money.. terrible estate with bars on the window and streets that you wouldn’t step out at night is not what she wanted... so she had it aborted.

I salute her, because I know that if that kid was alive today (probably aged 4) there would be no life, no money.. living in crap.

I don’t think we or religion can have a say on what a woman does with her body, and if she chooses abortion then people must understand and support.

what I don’t agree with is the limit on when you can abort, its a bit late in the day. but then you come into the field of consciousness... is the baby conscious, can it feel, can it think..

I know that’s cold, but if you’re going to terminate life, where do you stop?




then you go in to the territories of disabled kids....


IF say you and your wife/ girlfriend was to have a child, and you found out within the termination period that the child was severely disabled.... what would you do?

again it comes down situation, to look after a child for up to 30/40+ years laid out on a bed wired to a machine, will cost a lot of money and the state does not help out nearly enough... I can understand why people do think about abortion.


what I REALLY don’t agree with is religious families aborting babies when they don’t get the correct sex.

In Reading (where I live) the hospitals will not tell you the sex of your baby, because too many families have terminated just because the baby was female. Wrong, I know….


Abortion is a fine line, but really …the only thing that politicians should ONLY think about is the welfare of the woman concerned when thinking about the abortion law.

[Interceptor]

Why is this such a touchy subject? Honestly, who gives a shit? An aborted child (if you can call it that) knows nothing of life. Abortions are preformed in the early stages of pregnancy. Nobody is losing anything. In fact, most people that opt for the clinic probabaly didn't intend on becoming pregnant anyway. Weather there was an accident or they were just careless. Nonetheless, it's their choice to have sex and it's their choice to have a child. I hate the "You should know the risks" speech, too. It's true, most people know that having sex can result in unwanted pregnancy, but that's not enough to warrant abstanince, particullary in todays society. There are safe a practical ways of dealing with it. Shit, nobody jumps all over birth control like this, and for all intensive purposes it's pre-abortion in a pill. If you want one fine. By all means have one, control the population. If you don't, that's fine too. Goddamn, cold hearted murder is more accepted these days.

[Lefty Grove]

Originally posted by Interceptor
Shit, nobody jumps all over birth control like this, and for all intensive purposes it's pre-abortion in a pill.

No, it isn't. Most people think life is created when the sperm reaches the egg/the zygote forming. The pill tricks the woman's body into thinking it is having its period, and somehow stops the woman from becoming pregnant (I'm no expert, by the way, correct me if I'm wrong here guys.). No life is ever formed.

[KCAA]

Originally posted by Gabriel013


1) What's wrong with adoption? I think there should have to be a pretty damn good reason for abortion to be the only option. "I don't want it" just doesn't cut it with me.

Why should she want to get rid of your child?
Is it because she doesn't care about you enough to have a child with you? In that case maybe you shouldn't have had sex.
Is it because she wants to put her career above her family? Might I suggests using precautions.

I know there are other reasons for abortions (rape etc) and these I think are just reasons.

Personally, I don't think men should take a stand. I think if you were a woman things would be different. (its then your body) Its easy for men to say prolife...but being female might change it. Don't give me that jibjab about how it wouldn't because youd still have core beliefs...core beliefs CAN change.


Lefty --- If you argue that life starts at "x" point, then you cannot in any circumstance kill ANY living thing. Because that would be immoral. Killing ants...thats killing life. Now if you specify....HUMAN life, then the question becomes, at what point does a celled organism become human. IMO, its when the brain is formed and you can monitor it's waves. Then it is human. Because after all thats what defines us.

Interceptor - What a statement. I agree with 99% of it. Except for the "pre-abortion pill" Yes it is "like" that however, for the church they say "Life only begins when the sperm and egg unite, meaning that the pill doens't allow that.

Actually, on second thought it is a pre-abortion pill. It makes it so the woman can't HOLD the child (aka Pregnant) I will bet you that it "flushes" the fertalized egg down with it in somecases...which is wrong.

In anycase, screw the church (Catholic espeically...and thats coming from a raised Catholic).

[Gabriel013]

Originally posted by Gabriel013


I know there are other reasons for abortions (rape etc) and these I think are just reasons.

Dillon, I meant 'just' as in 'justified'. I agree with you about freedom to abort rapists babies.


EDIT::

Interceptor, I'm not saying that we should be celibate unless we want children. All I'm saying is that there are ways to avoid getting pregnant in the first place and the mother (and father for that matter) shouldn't be so quick to put their desires ahead of those if their unborn child.


Dillon, as for the disability issue I would rather the mother abort than give birth to a child who will live for just a few years in pain. I can't truly give an answer for your later point about the person needing constant medical support for their life.

[dillonthebunny]

yeah... there are some strong reason for it, and I guess against it.


at the end of the day, the female in question.. its her decision, and as soon as people in power to make these decisions realise that, then the sooner the better.

[Gabriel013]

I think the fathers should also have a say as long as they were both consenting when the child was conceived.

[dillonthebunny]

good point...