Now that Ive cooled off....

[KCAA]

Originally posted by Dmitry M. (Lazer)


OMG, again you are implying it. Church has no control, it's the people's decisions, if they want to follow Church then they can do that.

Listen i'm Jewesh and i believe in my religion pretty strongly, which i a while back did not believe in as much. But because of what i believe is right i will elect that person. If i believe because of MY MORALS & BELIEFS that Bush's policies towards things are better, even though it does not go against my religious, that does not make me a theocrat or this country a theocracy.

Ok now lets bring up a subject in WHAT IF terms. Most wars other then the Civil War and the Vietnam war seem to turn out at the end to the better for the country. Lets say economically it was politically correct to go to war (again this is a what if), would you vote against the person for war or for the person for war? Now before you answer, let us say that you are a strong believer of Anti-War, even when it makes sense to go to war, you would still vote for the political party that is against war.

This is what i'm trying to get at.

By you saying i should take off all of my beliefs while voting and vote politically violates my opinion. And that is why this country is not a theocracy. And no way will be one.

I don't even see how this country can even be called a theocracy. A Theocracy is not what the people are in the country but a government run by Religious authority. See what you are implying is that our country is becoming a theocracy as if it is a bad thing. Well yes if it came directly into the government yes i woudl agree with you, but because people vote for there beliefs it does not make us a theocracy.

Yes the Church has no control. It has a HELL of a lot of influence though now doesn't it?

Your What if statement is very utopian. No one thinks about it that way. Most people, and i mean that, would vote against him. ESPECIALLY if the Church speaks out about it(lliek this year) Now WOULD I? Id vote for him. But im not very religious, as i find it just a pensive to put thoughts.

[Ryan H.]

Originally posted by KCAA



I also didn't say that just because Bush got elected means we're in a theocracy. Although, it does make it a bit more obvious, in a sense. [ There's just no way a president could serve 4 years with an economy like it was/is, the unemploment rise because of outsourcing, which he supports, and the war., and be reelected. Look back at history. His father for one. It came down to moral votes. Thats what im getting at.

Voters should put aside their religious beliefs. They need to vote on the issues, not listen to the effing Church tell them what todo because God will strike them down if they don't, or they'll go to hell. Correct me if im wrong, but if you were running for president you wouldn't want the church saying that to against you now would you?

Im not ignorant.

Unemployment has been at 5.5% or 5.4% all year, and was lower than when Clinton was elected in 1996, when it was at 5.6%

During the month after the 9/11 attacks, we lost one million jobs, and less than a third were to outsourcing. The biggest cause in job loss, for both us and the rest of the industrialized world, is increased productivity. A 1% increase in productivity obviates the need for about 3 million jobs. A great example is the steel industry, which today has almost half the employees it had in 1988, yet they produce 17% more steel.

Japan and Brazil suffer from this even worse than we do.

Additionally, the recession was inherited by Bush, not caused by him. The dot com bubble burst in March of 2000, dropping by over 31% in less than 30 days, stagnating the stock market which, coupled with decreases in business spending due to Y2K and other issues of paramount importance, caused a steady decline in the economy that bottomed out in November of that year.

As for Bush 41, his approval rating after the war was 91%, the highest ever, I believe. It made him complacent, and he basically failed to campaign as he thought he had re-election in the bag.

Add Ross Perot to the mix, who took away a sizeable chunk of the electorate, and Clinton wins in 1992 with a mere 42% of the vote.

Religion is an expression of the fundamental beliefs and values of a man; it's not something you can put aside when deciding the issues, because your faith is a reflection of who you are, and to put aside your religious beliefs is to put aside what you hold dear.

It's incredibly ignorant to presume that just because someone is religious that they vote the way their church tells them to.

As for what I would like were I running for president, I certainly wouldn't like a group of people calling me evil and stupid, as Bush was labeled repeatedly throughout the campaign. There were ads comparing him to Hitler, a senator called him 'braindead', Gore accused him of treason, and Maureen Dowd claimed that Bush 'ran a jihad at home so he could run a jihad overseas'.

I wouldn't like the church calling me evil any more than I would like the militant left calling me evil AND stupid. The media has already labeled me and anyone who voted for Bush as 'stupid', as if to say that only morons would vote for the man. Ironically enough, Bush got the MOST popular votes in history, beating our Reagan's turnout in 1984.

So, I'm sorry to say, you ARE ignorant. I don't mean to be arrogant, but every claim you tried to make is indisputably, factually wrong. You and your liberal ideology have been owned by the truth.

Don't believe everything Michael Moore or Jimmy Carville tell you, ok? It just makes you look foolish.

[svosen]

Originally posted by KCAA
Abortion. Its wrong, yes. Should it be legsilated against because of our belief? No. Why? Because everyone doesn't have the same beliefs.

Like I pointed out earlier, this type of thinking is illogical. The notion that separate, independant "realities" exist for each human is completely nonsensical.

How can you possibly assert that something is a truth for you, but not for someone else?

What if my "truth" is that murder is completely moral? Should we legalize it simply because I think it's okay? I'm sure you can see my point (can't you?).

Let me try again: I don't have any qualms with getting slogged on Jim Beam and driving really fast through a school zone at 8:00 in the morning. Seems perfectly acceptable to me. Therefore, based on your logic, drunken driving should not be outlawed. After all, not everybody believes it's wrong.

Again, my point:

Truth is NOT (can NOT BE) relative! Truth is absolute.

If you disagree with this, please, please, please explain to all of us WHY. There is no logical alternative to exlusive truth.

A person can believe what he believes until he's blue in the face; it doesn't change the truth.

[Ryan H.]

Originally posted by KCAA


First it wasn't just my father. Plus youd be calling abunch of federal judges stupid too. (Not that you care)

I will say though(without being an *******), you are VERY narrowminded. I know i can be at times, but you are VERY narrowminded.

Nice work on the Congress sessions prayers etc. I now will ask my rep why they do that.

That also could be a tribute to the American people losing sight of what should be done in the government.

Abortion. Its wrong, yes. Should it be legsilated against because of our belief? No. Why? Because everyone doesn't have the same beliefs.

Same secenario.

Being a federal judge does not make you smart.

One federal judge declared that all terrorists must be given Geneva Conventioin status, even though terrorists explicitly defy the requirements to earn it.

One federal judge declared that public nudity is legal.

Another federal judge sentenced child rapist to a mere 60 days in jail.

Would you like me to go on? I'm not impressed with your "my father and his buddies say this" proof surrogate. Get them in here to argue their own statements or drop it, because proof surrogates are bullshit.

I'm not at all narrowminded. I'm just appalled by how far some of the people on this site lean to the left. On the political forum I post at I'm considered a moderate right of center conservative with libertarian leanings. For more information on libertarianism, hit up google. If you notice, I'm very open to discussion with people like Odin, because he doesn't make ****ed up, factually incorrect statements, and argues from a more centered point of view. The fact that you view me as narrowminded demonstrates just how far left you actually are.

Your congressman prays because it's something we've done since the foundation of this nation. Yes, from day one, congress prayed to God before every session, presumably for guidance and assistance in governing the country.

Murder. Is it wrong? Yes. Should it be illegal because of our beliefs? No? Because not everyone holds the same beliefs about murder?

Rape. Is it wrong? Yes. Should it be illegal because of our beliefs? No? Because not everyone thinks rape is bad?

The idea that nothing that is morally disputed should be illegal is ****ing retarded. Not everyone thinks it's wrong to cut a woman's head off, apparently, but that doesn't mean we should make it legal.

So, basically, we're back to "we're a theocracy because Bush won and my dad says so", right?

[Dmitry M. (Lazer)]

Originally posted by Ryan H.

So, basically, we're back to "we're a theocracy because Bush won and my dad says so", right?

Thank You!

KCAA that's all you've been saying. Clearly you think that the beliefs of others don't matter and you seem to only think you are correct.

How about we bring this into the open, the biggest issue during the campaign that was dealt religiously, Gay Marriages. Now if i believe it's wrong, why should i vote for it rather then against it. Oh because you want me to dump my beliefs.

[KCAA]

Originally posted by Ryan H.


Unemployment has been at 5.5% or 5.4% all year, and was lower than when Clinton was elected in 1996, when it was at 5.6%

During the month after the 9/11 attacks, we lost one million jobs, and less than a third were to outsourcing. The biggest cause in job loss, for both us and the rest of the industrialized world, is increased productivity. A 1% increase in productivity obviates the need for about 3 million jobs. A great example is the steel industry, which today has almost half the employees it had in 1988, yet they produce 17% more steel.

Japan and Brazil suffer from this even worse than we do.

Additionally, the recession was inherited by Bush, not caused by him. The dot com bubble burst in March of 2000, dropping by over 31% in less than 30 days, stagnating the stock market which, coupled with decreases in business spending due to Y2K and other issues of paramount importance, caused a steady decline in the economy that bottomed out in November of that year.

As for Bush 41, his approval rating after the war was 91%, the highest ever, I believe. It made him complacent, and he basically failed to campaign as he thought he had re-election in the bag.

Add Ross Perot to the mix, who took away a sizeable chunk of the electorate, and Clinton wins in 1992 with a mere 42% of the vote.

Religion is an expression of the fundamental beliefs and values of a man; it's not something you can put aside when deciding the issues, because your faith is a reflection of who you are, and to put aside your religious beliefs is to put aside what you hold dear.

It's incredibly ignorant to presume that just because someone is religious that they vote the way their church tells them to.

As for what I would like were I running for president, I certainly wouldn't like a group of people calling me evil and stupid, as Bush was labeled repeatedly throughout the campaign. There were ads comparing him to Hitler, a senator called him 'braindead', Gore accused him of treason, and Maureen Dowd claimed that Bush 'ran a jihad at home so he could run a jihad overseas'.

I wouldn't like the church calling me evil any more than I would like the militant left calling me evil AND stupid. The media has already labeled me and anyone who voted for Bush as 'stupid', as if to say that only morons would vote for the man. Ironically enough, Bush got the MOST popular votes in history, beating our Reagan's turnout in 1984.

So, I'm sorry to say, you ARE ignorant. I don't mean to be arrogant, but every claim you tried to make is indisputably, factually wrong. You and your liberal ideology have been owned by the truth.

Don't believe everything Michael Moore or Jimmy Carville tell you, ok? It just makes you look foolish.

6 million jobs. No denying that. Bush didn't.

And no, it has nothing todo with my dad.

Religion plays too big a role in our election and government.

[Voice]

Just because Bush got elected does not make us a Theocracy, and I don't think that's what KCAA is trying to say really.

I think that we are not a Theocracy. And that's what I stated ealier, because Religious leaders are not in government power. But, our country is turning in that direction SLIGHTLY because of the ammendments that are being introduced.

I can't believe that people would agree to make abortion illegal. Ask yourself this question, Your girlfriend is pregnant.....she decides to get an abortion, which of the following would you rather she do?

A: Go to a clinic, in a sterile environment, and have an abortion.

or

B: Go to an alley and have someone shove a coathanger inside her.

You may say, no ****ing way she's getting one in the first place, but it's not up to you, and you can't force her to do anything. If she makes the choice she's getting it done.

Ryan: Your statements on Native Americans and Slaves are so ridiculous, where in the **** did you learn that shit?

I never said that Slavery or torture was done in the name of god, I said the people who did it were religious men who believed strongly in the bible. My problem has never been with religion itself, it has always been with people who follow it....certain people. Not the religion itself.

That's why I can say that I believe in THE GOD. The only god that there is. I believe in his teachings, I believe in the bible. What I don't believe in is the forcing of his word on other people. All that has caused is war and murder.


Getting plastered in my house is my right, I can do that.....they tried making that illegal before too....and look what that brought about...the ****ing MAFIA.

My point is, yes, chopping a woman's head off should be illegal...but should a woman's choice to have a baby or not be illegal? no...it shouldn't.

Just the implication that George W. Bush is trying to impose this as an ammendment sickens me....and if you don't agree that it will open the window for other ammendments taking away even more freedom....then we just disagree.

I do agree that people should vote based on their morals and beliefs...that's what makes us America....what I don't agree with is George W. Bush playing the moral/religion card in order to catch the vote of the major playing states in the country.....in relation to the electoral college. The whole middle of the country was Bush...because it's the bible belt.

All I have to say was that was some pretty good ****ing strategy on their part, no matter how dirty it was. We'll see what happens in the next year.

Who knows, maybe PSXExtreme will finally get to have a meet and greet....in Iraq!!!! Except it'll only be the guys over 18 and under 25....in good physical condition.

[Dmitry M. (Lazer)]

Just because Bush got elected does not make us a Theocracy, and I don't think that's what KCAA is trying to say really.

This thread wouldn't have came up if Bush wasn't elected! So don't deny it's not because of Bush, clearly KCAA posted this thread because Bush won.

There are thousands of Amendments introduced every year that are stupid. That doesn't mean Congress will pass them.

6 million jobs. No denying that. Bush didn't.

Unemployment rate as of Oct. 2004 is 5.5%. Now lets take it further, During the 9/11 bombing unemployment rate was close to 6.0%, but what no one mentions is that in 1994, during Clinton's reign in power unemployment was a whopping 6.6%. Oh but i guess it's ok since Clinton managed to bring it down 4-6 years later to 3.9%. If so then give Buch a chance.

[Lefty Grove]

Found a funny site.

http://gprime.net/video.php/2004votingmachine

[Dmitry M. (Lazer)]

Great post.