Religion Thread - Beware

[Voice]

I think doing the right the because you want to can be said about any religion....

that's why I lead my life by the terms and guidelines that I have personally taken from reading the bible, and by what my parents taught me while raising me....

I don't find it important in my life to go listen to someone else read to me...and furthering that is how much I really just don't fit in at any church i've attended...I feel like the outcast, because none of the other people really ever talked to me at all.....old people are afraid of pierced people.

[Matthew S.]

Originally posted by lue
Matt, I find it kind of funny how you believe that "any amount of faith has to be supported by some type of evidence," since the definition of faith is a belief that doesn't rest on logical proof or material evidence. I'm not trying to make fun of you in any way, I just find it interesting that you believe that (would you mind explaining why you think that?)

As I stated, all religion is based on a certain amount of faith. However, based on historical records, the life of a man named Jesus can be documented. His actions and death are accounted for, so there's very little dispute that he existed. Now, the obvious differing point is whether he is the Son of God. Regardless though, you are basing your belief system on a man that factually existed; this would be one form of evidence I would site. Also, the Bible is a piece of evidence documenting the belief system of individuals living at the time. Whether you believe it is fact or simply a set of loose rules is up to you, but it's something to base your faith on.

If there was no Bible, would you be a Christian? Would you believe in a man you never heard of? It basically sounds like you're saying your faith is centered on something that needs no logic, while I contend there should be some amount there. Why is Christianity any different than worshiping a statue of Elvis?

...see what I'm saying?

[Ryan H.]

I don't adhere to any specific religion, per se, because the bible condemns religion. In every instance in the bible, save one, whenever the "religion" is discussed, it is condemned. In fact, in Matthew, Jesus condemns religion by saying "You worship me, but your hearts are far from me; your teachings are the teachings of men".

So, while I believe in Christ, I don't go around saying "I follow X religion". I don't disrespect anyone who does, because I can certainly understand the various interpretations of faith, and this just happens to be mine.

As for how I came to view things this way, I was raised a presbyterian, but after many talks with the minister of a local shelter here in Denver where my family donates time, I came to realize that distinguishing myself by demomination is exactly what Christ (as I PERSONALLY see it) didn't want happening.

Just my .02.

[svosen]

Agreed - denominations are for the birds.

Ryan: I remember the last time this topic was brought up I had a very difficult time trying to figure out exactly where you stood on the issue. Too bad you didn't write then exactly what you posted here; it would have saved us both a lot of frustration

Sorry I missed it before...

I just don't attend regular meetings in elaborate buildings with staind glass windows and a collection plate to demonstrate my faith. If that makes me a bad person, then so be it.

Doesn't make you a bad person. God has told us that wherever two or more of us are gathered in his name, he is there among us. In other words, the building and the trappings do not make the church. The church is the body of believers. If you are able to worship God and carry out a fellowship with other believers outside of a traditional church setting, there is nothing wrong with that.

Besides, like I said earlier, we are all at different spiritual levels. Two years ago I was not attending church with any regularity at all. I feel I was a Christian then, as I am now; now I'm just a little further along in my personal progression. It makes me no better or worse than those of you who are not attending a church.

[svosen]

"And he said to him, "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.
This is the great and first commandment.
And a second is like it, You shall love your neighbor as yourself.
On these two commandments depend all the law and the prophets." " Matthew 22:37-40 (the words of Jesus)

Sorry for the double posts, but this is pertinent. The above quote is the foundation of my belief. I try to live my life based on these two principles, in the order prescribed. Doesn't mean I always succeed, though.

~~~~~

Gabe, I've got a question for you.

I've heard the argument made against Satanism (as I understand it to be based on our previous discussions: that is, Satanism is believing what you believe regardless of what others think, even if it's not in line with other Satanists, and that your belief has nothing to do with worshipping the Christian devil), atheism, and agnostisism that without the "one true God" (as described by Christians), there is no reason to place value on human life. If we are each our own God, there is nothing to stop us from treating others poorly or even savagely.

Obviously you are a satanist, and yet you are clearly conscious of the need to respect and value your fellow man.

I would be curious to hear your response to the argument I've heard, as stated above. In other words: from where do you draw your inspiration to treat others kindly? To what do you attribute your conscience?

[Ryan H.]

No one does, Svosen, because as people it is neither possible nor required to always be successful. What is possible is that we always strive to be successful, and even in that regard I often fail.

[Matthew S.]

from where do you draw your inspiration to treat others kindly? To what do you attribute your conscience?

People draw inspiration from within themselves, and decide what is right based mainly on their own feelings of concern. Now clearly you're going to argue, "What keeps you from killing someone anytime you want if you decide your actions." If you're saying that the only way someone can follow laws of society and human nature is through those set out by the Bible, you're blind to specific aspects of life. I can't understand how you can contend that the Bible is the only source for respect and value for your fellow man, which you've basically implied in your post.

I'm not trying to make a personal attack svosen, but I find it ignorant to follow that way of thinking. If I've missed where you stand on the issue, I appologize; I'd appreciate some sort of response to clear up what you're saying.

[Ryan H.]

Satanism is a rejection of Christianity. It is based on the Christian religion, in that without the Christian religion, Satanism would not exist.

THAT, I think, is Svosen's problem with the "religion" of Satanism. Many Satanists like to say that Satanism is something entirely different, but in doing so they demonstrate that they are unaware of the origins of the term and its applications. People who truly follow Satanism reject the concept of loving thy neighbor and honoring thy mother and father, and basically ever other single tenent of Christianity.

[Ryan H.]

Satanism is a religion involving either the worship of Satan, or some other supreme evil being, or the directing of one's life based on inspirations gained from study of the archetype of Satan. The earliest recorded instance of the word is in "A confutation of a booke (by Bp. Jewel) intituled An apologie of the Church of England", by Thomas Harding (1565):


ll, ii, 42 b, "Meaning the time when Luther first brinced to Germanie the poisoned cuppe of his heresies, blasphemies, and Satanismes."

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satanism

Now, many people state that Satanism is merely the study of indulgence of self, or responsibility of the responsible, but no matter how they spin it, those are all concepts which are epitomized by Satan and engineered his downfall, and they are all Judeo-Christian concepts of Satan, thus making Satanism the antithesis of Christianity and Judaism.

[Matthew S.]

An atheist or agnostic seems to correlate better with Gabe's ideology. However, we've had a thread about this before and it seems that Satanism has taken on differing points of view. I would argue with Ryan, though, that it all stems from the same meaning.