Sony Discusses BluRay with Microsoft. - Page 2

dillonthebunny · 03-14-2008, 04:50 PM

another bit from PSP Fanboy from the Heroes of Microsoft decission making...

"Microsoft execs have been quick to point out that the Xbox will not be integrating Blu-ray into their console any time soon. Microsoft's European boss, Chris Lewis, is committed to bringing digital downloads to consumers, and believes that's where the future is. "Going forwards, digital downloads is really where it's at," Lewis told GamesIndustry.biz. Xbox Live Video Marketplace currently supplies downloadable HD rentals of movies and television shows. Sony's PS3 does not currently feature a similar service.

"Before very long we will look back wistfully at shiny discs as something that was somewhat a historic phenomenon in a way that we kind of think about vinyl or VCRs today," Lewis stated. While the Microsoft-backed HD DVD format has "died" in the next generation format wars, Lewis believes that Blu-ray will follow the same fate. When will digital distribution take dominance? "I think that's going to be the case in the next 12-18 months."

Digital distribution would be great if the movie selection and video quality could match the offerings of a disc-based medium. Blu-ray discs offer 1080p video, uncompressed video and special features. Without the proper infrastructure and bandwidth to support such large files, we think digital distribution of HD video will take much longer to truly proliferate. Ultimately, only time will tell."

................

so right, they honestly think that the world is going to go download only?? are they insane? I agree that it is the future, but i certainly dont agree that in 18 months Blu-Ray or disk format will be dead, thats just incredible, and i would love to see where they got their figures from.

at the end of the day people will always want substance over digital invisible data. To go and buy something from a shop.. to go home and play or listen to it will die out in many many MANY years to come imo. To try and force this upon the public like MS could do in the near future is a crazy thing to do.

bBt we'll see. MS may have a hold over the world of the PC, but that side is Blu-Ray OK, but to basically say that in 18 months the Xbox will be download only is mad, because not only are they not set up for such a thing (ie: 360..HDD not big enough), they are talking about gamers.. gamers who like going in to shops and buying the latest game. Console gamers are not PC gamers, totally different breed.

imo Hardcore PC gamers think in a different way, they want instant perfect gaming, they require uber performace and probably couldnt care less if they got a rare version of star ocean or not, why would they care..? but the Console gamer does care. that imo is the difference! thats why download only would not work, no until it becomes the norm to do so.

anyway, thats my opinion, and i have the right to totally change my mind if and when the moment suits me

Zapix · 03-14-2008, 05:17 PM

Gotta agree with ya Dillon, I prefer 100% to go to the store buy the game. I can hold it in my hands, I can see it, read it, open it up and put the disc in... It's phsyically there. If at anytime my harddrive goes dead, it's no big deal. The game isn't on the harddrive! Harddrives fail, harddrives have limited space. I am likely to never go down the path of downloading HD movies, etc.

Secondly, downloading a HD movie requires alot of space! Say the standard bluray movie is 30gb with uncompressed 1080p video, uncompressed 7.1 audio, toss in extras such as trailers, behind the scenes, commentary, etc. Um. 30gb is one hell of a long time to download, ESPECIALLY when internet providers are complaining about all the bandwidth being used! Comcast is throwing a fit over people actually using the bandwidth, and some companies are even capping the maxium data transfer amounts, speeds, etc. With that in mind, several new movies per week, movie home theater enthusiest are not going to enjoy the experience between downloading, lack of space, etc. It is simply a far fetched STAR TREK kind of dream! Get real!

On that note, I've asked many adults over the age of 45 about the downloading idea. All (100%, no joke!) of them stare blankly confused, and don't even like the idea. Most agree it sounds too confusing, and really don't like the idea of having to use the internet for movies. They want to go to the store, Walmart, Target, Best Buy, or whatever store you prefer and buy the physical thing they can hold in their hand, have it on a shelf or whatnot. Digital media has uses, but it's limited.

Microsoft is obviously insane.

20-30 years from now, sure, it might be the popular choice for the upcoming generations, but the current generations just won't select it as the main choice.

They should work on making the XBOX 360 function correctly before they start something else! LOL

Added Notes: Should also note, lol, the popular download of movies currently is divx, and usually via Peer 2 Peer... LOL, wonder if Microsoft plans to open up a movie piracy system! LOL Microsoft Windows Vista: Steal Movies from Hollywood Edition, $399.95 + tax, and get 5 free movies when you mail in the rebate... xD

Mr. SunburnMan · 03-14-2008, 05:59 PM

well given that it would have been a movie-playing device only and that they offer a downloadable movie service (even though it's far from great at the moment) - this doesn't really surprise me.

The Benny (Macho) · 03-14-2008, 08:04 PM

Blu Ray will certainly do just fine in this generation but it would seem Microsoft are doing well enough with the movie downloads form Live that they don't feel the need to work on building a BR player, which is fair enough. It certainly isn't impossible that by the end of this console generation digital downloading will be better than it is now but I think even 18 months is optimisitc. Some of the issues:

Storage: Can't be transferred or copied. 360 hard drives are ridiculously expensive even for 20GB. You're talking maybe a terabyte drive to ensure you can download lots of HD movies (assuming they actually use true, 20GB+ HD files) without having to space juggle, especially if it includes games as well.
Download Speeds: In the UK few ISPs give you anywhere close to the promised speed and they throttle or even cut off your downloading if you download too much. ISPs have essentially cut prices so much they can't afford to provide proper service any more, and they certainly can't afford to upgrade the infrastructure. There's a limit to how far in advance people are going to start downloading a movie (or a game) in preparation for playing it, especially if it's going to bog down their connection until finished.
DRM: Links into the storage issue. As long as there are limits on what you can play, how and where you can play it or how long you have to watch it a lot of people won't touch the service. There were several music download services last year that shut down and people were no longer able to play their songs. Pirated movies are still superior to download versions right now, a problem that the music industry is only just getting its head round.

I'd be very surprised if Microsoft aren't looking into the feasibility of a download-only console for next generation, or at least a console that has every game available for download as well as available in physical form.

Mr. SunburnMan · 03-15-2008, 07:18 AM

Yeah. they really have to fix up their hard drive prices. They're beyond retarded to charge so much for them, especially since their purpose is essentially to buy content from their online store (of which I'm sure they get a good cut of).

Space will get tight with Rockband DLC and GTA 4 DLC.

BlinkBoy · 03-15-2008, 12:19 PM

It is lame that xbox have no format option like PS3 have. So you must buy the 20gb HDD for a lot more money then any 3rd party hdd cost way less then that. I swopped my PS3 drive with (60gb to 250gb) ease, I have external hdd that i did a backup of the old hard drive, installed the new one. Turned on PS3 and was asked to format the new hdd to make it work with the PS3. When format complete I went and just restored the data from old hard drive on to the new one, nothing changed just more space for me.

So a more user friendly hard drive with the x360 would be nice and not forced to buy what microsoft put in their Xbox 360 brand.

Mr. SunburnMan · 03-15-2008, 02:08 PM

Well it's extremely user friendly - swapping hard drives is no problem on the 360, and that's because it's proprietary. However, all of these good intensions are invalidated by their terrible entry price.

I agree that the ps3's way of handling external memory is the best, currently, but a mix of both solutions would be the best we could ask for as customer (one's flexibility and price with the other's ease of 'installation').

Ryan H. · 03-15-2008, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dillonthebunny

if its true what Ryan was saying about the 360 needing five dvd's to run MGS4 (and were not even getting in to the argument if the current 360 hardware could run MGS4).. then more and more games over the next few years will need extra space. this time next year we could see duel/ triple layered BRD. I really wouldnt be surprised if MS have already designed a new console.

That's not what I said. I said that IF Kojima was right that MGS4 was so big it couldn't all fit on a 50GB Blu Ray, it would need 5 dual layered DVDs (actually six), which is counter to his claim that MGS4 on the 360 is 'technically possible'. Point being Kojima was full of it when he said that.

By the time 50GB is an actual limitation on storage space we're going to have digital distribution as a reality, as in it will be the standard. That's years away at best.

Zapix · 03-15-2008, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryan H.

That's not what I said. I said that IF Kojima was right that MGS4 was so big it couldn't all fit on a 50GB Blu Ray, it would need 5 dual layered DVDs (actually six), which is counter to his claim that MGS4 on the 360 is 'technically possible'. Point being Kojima was full of it when he said that.

By the time 50GB is an actual limitation on storage space we're going to have digital distribution as a reality, as in it will be the standard. That's years away at best.

Is 50gb being a limitation so totally out of the question, do you seriously doubt MSG4 couldn't be near that much? The graphics on LOST ODYSSEY are lightyears away from what SquareEnix is about to produce out of FINAL FANTASY XIII, and yet LOST ODYSSEY is on 4 DVD discs, so saying that the DVD format is more than enough is far from truth. I wouldn't be at all amazed if we find that FINAL FANTASY XIII is a 2 disc game based on that LOST ODYSSEY had to be on 4 discs. SquareEnix is also known to love cutscenes, so I can imagine they'll find a way to make 50gb of cutscenes! LOL Not to mention we're dealing with a generation of games that seems intent on using 5.1 and 7.1 audio. If they start getting all excited with the uncompressed 7.1 TrueHD audio, and 1080p graphics with lots of content, will quickly go out the door once you start throwing in cutscenes with it. Just depends on the level of content. It's not really a logical approach for the audio, but why not... The ability is there, and making games bigger, better, and more impressive is what this generation games are fighting for.

What I'm still trying to figure out is how do games like LOST ODYSSEY and MSG4 take up exessive space, and games like MASS EFFECT and OBLIVION fit on 1 disc.

Microsoft is biting at things it should stay out of because it has no grounds to really win. Gates is becoming a little over ambitious.

The Benny (Macho) · 03-16-2008, 06:08 AM

MGS doesn't use cutscenes though, does it? Mass Effect and Oblivion don't either, only in-game cinematics, hence the scepticism. Even with completely uncompressed audio it's unlikely to reach 50GB unless they've completely failed to optimise it in any way, and even then it's doubtful. As you said, Mass Effect fits on one disc with HD graphics and Shepard's entire audio present in both male and female versions, for a game that I imagine runs for longer than MGS4 will.

03-14-2008, 04:50 PM	#11
dillonthebunny Blinkity blink blink Join Date: Feb 2003 PS2 Online ID: Dillonthebunny/HareofDoom PS3 Network ID: HareOfDoom/DillonTheBunny Posts: 5,332	another bit from PSP Fanboy from the Heroes of Microsoft decission making... "Microsoft execs have been quick to point out that the Xbox will not be integrating Blu-ray into their console any time soon. Microsoft's European boss, Chris Lewis, is committed to bringing digital downloads to consumers, and believes that's where the future is. "Going forwards, digital downloads is really where it's at," Lewis told GamesIndustry.biz. Xbox Live Video Marketplace currently supplies downloadable HD rentals of movies and television shows. Sony's PS3 does not currently feature a similar service. "Before very long we will look back wistfully at shiny discs as something that was somewhat a historic phenomenon in a way that we kind of think about vinyl or VCRs today," Lewis stated. While the Microsoft-backed HD DVD format has "died" in the next generation format wars, Lewis believes that Blu-ray will follow the same fate. When will digital distribution take dominance? "I think that's going to be the case in the next 12-18 months." Digital distribution would be great if the movie selection and video quality could match the offerings of a disc-based medium. Blu-ray discs offer 1080p video, uncompressed video and special features. Without the proper infrastructure and bandwidth to support such large files, we think digital distribution of HD video will take much longer to truly proliferate. Ultimately, only time will tell." ................ so right, they honestly think that the world is going to go download only?? are they insane? I agree that it is the future, but i certainly dont agree that in 18 months Blu-Ray or disk format will be dead, thats just incredible, and i would love to see where they got their figures from. at the end of the day people will always want substance over digital invisible data. To go and buy something from a shop.. to go home and play or listen to it will die out in many many MANY years to come imo. To try and force this upon the public like MS could do in the near future is a crazy thing to do. bBt we'll see. MS may have a hold over the world of the PC, but that side is Blu-Ray OK, but to basically say that in 18 months the Xbox will be download only is mad, because not only are they not set up for such a thing (ie: 360..HDD not big enough), they are talking about gamers.. gamers who like going in to shops and buying the latest game. Console gamers are not PC gamers, totally different breed. imo Hardcore PC gamers think in a different way, they want instant perfect gaming, they require uber performace and probably couldnt care less if they got a rare version of star ocean or not, why would they care..? but the Console gamer does care. that imo is the difference! thats why download only would not work, no until it becomes the norm to do so. anyway, thats my opinion, and i have the right to totally change my mind if and when the moment suits me __________________ Legend Edgemaster of the Unicorn. oh and nine thousand fake forum tokens, 3 real ones and 5 special tokens mysteriously protected by a blinding white aura.. known to some as the 'anti wife light'.. ""Bombing for peace is like **ing for virginity" "NO OFFENCE" R.I.P @PS3 Last edited by dillonthebunny : 03-14-2008 at 04:53 PM.

03-14-2008, 05:17 PM	#12
Zapix Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: England 2.0 PS3 Network ID: Zapix Xbox Live ID: Zapix Posts: 190	Gotta agree with ya Dillon, I prefer 100% to go to the store buy the game. I can hold it in my hands, I can see it, read it, open it up and put the disc in... It's phsyically there. If at anytime my harddrive goes dead, it's no big deal. The game isn't on the harddrive! Harddrives fail, harddrives have limited space. I am likely to never go down the path of downloading HD movies, etc. Secondly, downloading a HD movie requires alot of space! Say the standard bluray movie is 30gb with uncompressed 1080p video, uncompressed 7.1 audio, toss in extras such as trailers, behind the scenes, commentary, etc. Um. 30gb is one hell of a long time to download, ESPECIALLY when internet providers are complaining about all the bandwidth being used! Comcast is throwing a fit over people actually using the bandwidth, and some companies are even capping the maxium data transfer amounts, speeds, etc. With that in mind, several new movies per week, movie home theater enthusiest are not going to enjoy the experience between downloading, lack of space, etc. It is simply a far fetched STAR TREK kind of dream! Get real! On that note, I've asked many adults over the age of 45 about the downloading idea. All (100%, no joke!) of them stare blankly confused, and don't even like the idea. Most agree it sounds too confusing, and really don't like the idea of having to use the internet for movies. They want to go to the store, Walmart, Target, Best Buy, or whatever store you prefer and buy the physical thing they can hold in their hand, have it on a shelf or whatnot. Digital media has uses, but it's limited. Microsoft is obviously insane. 20-30 years from now, sure, it might be the popular choice for the upcoming generations, but the current generations just won't select it as the main choice. They should work on making the XBOX 360 function correctly before they start something else! LOL Added Notes: Should also note, lol, the popular download of movies currently is divx, and usually via Peer 2 Peer... LOL, wonder if Microsoft plans to open up a movie piracy system! LOL Microsoft Windows Vista: Steal Movies from Hollywood Edition, $399.95 + tax, and get 5 free movies when you mail in the rebate... xD __________________ PS3: DMC4, Enchanted Arms, Genji, GR AW2, GT5P, MGS4, Motorstorm, NG Sigma, Oblivion, Sonic, UT3 360: CoD4, Forza 2, GTA IV, Halo 3, KUF, Lost Odyssey, Marvel UA, Mass Effect, Naruto: RoTN PSP: FF, FF Tactics, FF VII: CC, Wipeout Pure and Pulse FFXI (Diabolos): Knitemare (75DRG), Gentatsu (75SAM), Kaymin (42RDM) Last edited by Zapix : 03-14-2008 at 05:24 PM.

03-14-2008, 05:59 PM	#13
Mr. SunburnMan I don't own a ps3 Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 4,461	well given that it would have been a movie-playing device only and that they offer a downloadable movie service (even though it's far from great at the moment) - this doesn't really surprise me. __________________

03-14-2008, 08:04 PM	#14
The Benny (Macho) Complainer of the year Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: England Posts: 1,135	Blu Ray will certainly do just fine in this generation but it would seem Microsoft are doing well enough with the movie downloads form Live that they don't feel the need to work on building a BR player, which is fair enough. It certainly isn't impossible that by the end of this console generation digital downloading will be better than it is now but I think even 18 months is optimisitc. Some of the issues: Storage: Can't be transferred or copied. 360 hard drives are ridiculously expensive even for 20GB. You're talking maybe a terabyte drive to ensure you can download lots of HD movies (assuming they actually use true, 20GB+ HD files) without having to space juggle, especially if it includes games as well. Download Speeds: In the UK few ISPs give you anywhere close to the promised speed and they throttle or even cut off your downloading if you download too much. ISPs have essentially cut prices so much they can't afford to provide proper service any more, and they certainly can't afford to upgrade the infrastructure. There's a limit to how far in advance people are going to start downloading a movie (or a game) in preparation for playing it, especially if it's going to bog down their connection until finished. DRM: Links into the storage issue. As long as there are limits on what you can play, how and where you can play it or how long you have to watch it a lot of people won't touch the service. There were several music download services last year that shut down and people were no longer able to play their songs. Pirated movies are still superior to download versions right now, a problem that the music industry is only just getting its head round. I'd be very surprised if Microsoft aren't looking into the feasibility of a download-only console for next generation, or at least a console that has every game available for download as well as available in physical form. __________________ The poster formerly known as Macho Man!

03-15-2008, 07:18 AM	#15
Mr. SunburnMan I don't own a ps3 Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 4,461	Yeah. they really have to fix up their hard drive prices. They're beyond retarded to charge so much for them, especially since their purpose is essentially to buy content from their online store (of which I'm sure they get a good cut of). Space will get tight with Rockband DLC and GTA 4 DLC. __________________

03-15-2008, 12:19 PM	#16
BlinkBoy Member Join Date: May 2007 PS3 Network ID: BlinkBoy Posts: 84	It is lame that xbox have no format option like PS3 have. So you must buy the 20gb HDD for a lot more money then any 3rd party hdd cost way less then that. I swopped my PS3 drive with (60gb to 250gb) ease, I have external hdd that i did a backup of the old hard drive, installed the new one. Turned on PS3 and was asked to format the new hdd to make it work with the PS3. When format complete I went and just restored the data from old hard drive on to the new one, nothing changed just more space for me. So a more user friendly hard drive with the x360 would be nice and not forced to buy what microsoft put in their Xbox 360 brand. __________________ PS3: DMC4, Uncharted, Heavenly Sword, Ratchet & Clank, Assassin Creed, Folklore... PSP: Final Fantasy 1, 2 and Tactics.

03-15-2008, 02:08 PM	#17
Mr. SunburnMan I don't own a ps3 Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 4,461	Well it's extremely user friendly - swapping hard drives is no problem on the 360, and that's because it's proprietary. However, all of these good intensions are invalidated by their terrible entry price. I agree that the ps3's way of handling external memory is the best, currently, but a mix of both solutions would be the best we could ask for as customer (one's flexibility and price with the other's ease of 'installation'). __________________

03-16-2008, 06:08 AM	#20
The Benny (Macho) Complainer of the year Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: England Posts: 1,135	MGS doesn't use cutscenes though, does it? Mass Effect and Oblivion don't either, only in-game cinematics, hence the scepticism. Even with completely uncompressed audio it's unlikely to reach 50GB unless they've completely failed to optimise it in any way, and even then it's doubtful. As you said, Mass Effect fits on one disc with HD graphics and Shepard's entire audio present in both male and female versions, for a game that I imagine runs for longer than MGS4 will. __________________ The poster formerly known as Macho Man!

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