Manhunt 2 banned .. again. - Page 2

Goten · 10-11-2007, 05:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gabriel013

I've been reading through the last article. Thanks so much for those links. They're appreciated.

I find p13 (of their document, not the pdf) interesting:

"Taboo themes are acceptable, but not if their treatment is likely to encourage harm to viewers or, through their behaviour, to society."

How the hell does some stuffy old group of people in a back room somewhere know if what they are rating will do the above? There still isn't any clear scientific study showing that violent or sexual games have any lasting effect on an individual.

I think passing material through the BBFC for classification is great as it provides a guidline to the public but they should NOT be overstepping their remit and telling me, as an adult, that certain material is unsuitable and might harm my mind. I'll be the judge of that thank you very much.

That is the exact reason why they can't let (in their eyes) this material out. If there is still a possibility that it could cause harm to certain individuals then they, as a governing body of censorship working on behalf of the British public, have a duty to protect us from said material. Its not just a group of spiteful old men deciding its harmful; they have a job to do where they cant really take risks, just imagine if it were proven that games can/do have an affect (however unlikely I personally believe that to be), then they would be put at blame for it.

You cant really blame them for blocking certain material when, as you said yourself, it cant be proven whether it affects people or not.

Gabriel013 · 10-11-2007, 07:35 AM

I'd like to take the start position that it doesn't do harm and work from there. As I don't think it can ever be proved or disproved I'd like to spend that eternity of research and study playing games that make me smile and help me relax. Manhunt being one of them

The Benny (Macho) · 10-11-2007, 07:41 AM

It's interesting, because they do acknowledge that through their own research they haven't found a link:

Quote:

From the PDF, page 7:

In analysing and classifying a game, the BBFC will assess two overriding aspects of the work:

• its harmful effects, if any;
• its acceptability to broad public opinion at the age group concerned.

The BBFC acknowledges the difference between watching a film or video and the more interactive experience of playing a game. However, research
into whether this interactivity has any significant effect on the potential for harm, which the BBFC is required to consider, is inconclusive. Consequently, in considering harm arguments, the BBFC errs on the side of caution and applies the same standards to games as to video.

However, the interactivity inherent in video games may, in certain contexts, lead to a greater potential for offence. While films and videos may present low levels of violence, sex, drugs or bad language in a manner appropriate for younger audiences, the ability of games to make the player complicit in these activities may cause them to be deemed inappropriate for the same age group, even if the level of detail is the same. These issues are naturally of greatest concern at the lowest age categories, where they form a major component of the game, and where the level of interactivity is high.

Obviously with regards to content and the general tone the BBFC has issues with, Manhunt 2 isn't the first game to place you in the role of a criminal protagonist. GTA (at least last time I played one) has you playing a career criminal, though one who generally limits any killing to that of other criminals; the Hitman series has you playing an assassin who kills for money in a brutal (if not particularly graphic) way, even if a lot of his primary targets are entirely unpleasant characters. The themes of Manhunt 2 have to be so many levels above this that they cross this arbitrary line between tolerable and unacceptable.

Goten · 10-11-2007, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gabriel013

I'd like to take the start position that it doesn't do harm and work from there. As I don't think it can ever be proved or disproved I'd like to spend that eternity of research and study playing games that make me smile and help me relax. Manhunt being one of them

I agree entirely, just thought I'd try and give a different perspective. To be honest, whats so annoying about this situation is that rather than trying to ban games/censor explicit content, these kinds of companies should be working on tightening up age restriction laws to try and prevent these kind of games from getting into the hands of kids. Anyone over the age of 18 has the right to buy whatever game they please, however gruesome or malicious it may seem.

The Benny (Macho) · 10-11-2007, 10:57 AM

As far as I'm aware the BBFC aren't the ones who make the rules though, they're just legally obliged to enforce them. Those rules are the ones specifying that UK citizens don't have the right to play any game they please.

Goten · 10-11-2007, 11:21 AM

Sorry that should say, should have the right. Any game is an exaggeration, obviously we cant have games with racist or paedophilic material for example, but I think when it comes to adult games, in most cases an adult should be able to chose for themselves.

You are right about the BBFC, it still annoys me that the government or whoever is responsible isnt taking action though.

Gabriel013 · 10-15-2007, 01:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goten

Sorry that should say, should have the right. Any game is an exaggeration, obviously we cant have games with racist or paedophilic material for example, but I think when it comes to adult games, in most cases an adult should be able to chose for themselves.

You are right about the BBFC, it still annoys me that the government or whoever is responsible isnt taking action though.

Doesn't GTA use racist character dialogue? To me the game is just like a movie in that it is fantasy. Simply characters playing a particular type of role.

Goten · 10-15-2007, 04:57 AM

Yeah, racism in context (as long as it's not too offensive I guess) is ok, I just meant like a racist game- we can't exactly have a game where you play as the KKK or whatever.

The Benny (Macho) · 10-24-2007, 11:49 AM

The Register had an interesting piece of news today, saying that BBFC ratings don't apply to downloaded games:

Quote:

Downloaded games, [a lawyer] said, do not need an age-suitability classification, such as 15 or 18, because the Act, which mandates the BBFC's certification programme and forces retailers to obey the classifications, only covers physical products.

A BBFC spokeswoman confirmed that if Manhunt 2 publisher Take-Two Interactive chose to sell the game online as a download then “that would be legal and not contravening the Video Recordings Act”. She added that some games are already sold this way without a BBFC rating, but that most developers choose to have their games classified because selling a physical product is more profitable.

Obviously that's not an ideal way to get the game to its intended consoles, even if Sony and Nintendo would allow such loophole exploiting, but it would mean a PC version would be perfectly legal.

dillonthebunny · 10-24-2007, 01:43 PM

it would be a great move if they could some how make it a downloadable game for the PS3, regions are all in place, all you need is a platform to download it from. Obviously the PSN wouldnt do it, so if R* could help PS3 owners download it from their site, that would work.

whether or not it would sell more than the PC version, i doubt it.. but i reckon it would still sell like hot cakes.

im on track to get the psp version, as long as i can guarntee the uncut game.

10-11-2007, 07:35 AM	#12
Gabriel013 ArchAngel Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Sheffield, England PS3 Network ID: gabriel013 Xbox Live ID: Gabriel013 Posts: 6,536	I'd like to take the start position that it doesn't do harm and work from there. As I don't think it can ever be proved or disproved I'd like to spend that eternity of research and study playing games that make me smile and help me relax. Manhunt being one of them __________________ \"...and he shall ascend from the fires of Hell...\" "everyone knows second hand squirrel kills." - Svosen 3 forum tokens

10-11-2007, 10:57 AM	#15
The Benny (Macho) Complainer of the year Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: England Posts: 1,135	As far as I'm aware the BBFC aren't the ones who make the rules though, they're just legally obliged to enforce them. Those rules are the ones specifying that UK citizens don't have the right to play any game they please. __________________ The poster formerly known as Macho Man!

10-11-2007, 11:21 AM	#16
Goten SUGAH!! Join Date: May 2003 Location: Wrexham, Wales Xbox Live ID: Super FLEXXO Posts: 1,249	Sorry that should say, should have the right. Any game is an exaggeration, obviously we cant have games with racist or paedophilic material for example, but I think when it comes to adult games, in most cases an adult should be able to chose for themselves. You are right about the BBFC, it still annoys me that the government or whoever is responsible isnt taking action though. __________________

10-15-2007, 04:57 AM	#18
Goten SUGAH!! Join Date: May 2003 Location: Wrexham, Wales Xbox Live ID: Super FLEXXO Posts: 1,249	Yeah, racism in context (as long as it's not too offensive I guess) is ok, I just meant like a racist game- we can't exactly have a game where you play as the KKK or whatever. __________________

10-24-2007, 01:43 PM	#20
dillonthebunny Blinkity blink blink Join Date: Feb 2003 PS2 Online ID: Dillonthebunny/HareofDoom PS3 Network ID: HareOfDoom/DillonTheBunny Posts: 5,332	it would be a great move if they could some how make it a downloadable game for the PS3, regions are all in place, all you need is a platform to download it from. Obviously the PSN wouldnt do it, so if R* could help PS3 owners download it from their site, that would work. whether or not it would sell more than the PC version, i doubt it.. but i reckon it would still sell like hot cakes. im on track to get the psp version, as long as i can guarntee the uncut game. __________________ Legend Edgemaster of the Unicorn. oh and nine thousand fake forum tokens, 3 real ones and 5 special tokens mysteriously protected by a blinding white aura.. known to some as the 'anti wife light'.. ""Bombing for peace is like **ing for virginity" "NO OFFENCE" R.I.P @PS3

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