Blu-Ray Is Necessary - Page 5

Dmitry M. (Lazer) · 06-02-2007, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darth Koth

"Blu-Ray is Necessary" is just a thread title designed to wind you up sunburn when you got me in a bad mood about somthing else that I can't remember now, for which Im sorry.

You're right, at the mo its not necessary but in my opinion I think it will be, that or cut scenes won't be in HD or somthing, I just think that there will have to be some sort of sacrifice in the future for games on DVD because a developers scope will be too big

I must strongly disagree. The future is heading towards internal memory and HDD support more so then any media. For example mp3 players, digital cameras, pc games/software, emulations, etc....

Blu-Ray won't be the future for gaming by far. If anything it will be a download/install to HDD. HDD's are very cheap and reaching terabyte capacities which far surpasses any Blu-Ray. As well with High-Speed internet reaching extreme highs with many people having over 10mbps downstream connection speeds along with the introduction of Fios (Fiber Optics by Verizon), the download a game from the net straight to the HDD will imo be the future.

If i would have to decide on a future console, it would still ofcourse have the Blu-Ray, HD-DVD, or any new media released at that time but would also support a high-capacity (half a terabyte or more) internal HDD, along with expandable mini-HDD slots or rather like we have it today the supportability of flash driver such as MMC, SD, Pro Duo, etc....

EDIT:
Had X-Box 360 had internal HDD's on all there consoles, the Blu-Ray on the PS3 would make no difference from the DVD on XBox360.

cAtDaFeLiX · 06-02-2007, 05:09 PM

I'm still waiting for the "format wars" to end. I won't get the Xbox 360 HD-DVD add-on until I know there's a clear winner and I won't buy any Blu-Ray or HD-DVD until there is also. If games will require the HD-DVD add-on for games I'll guess I'll spring for one.

Grover · 06-02-2007, 05:58 PM

Im very surprised at some of these responses, and honestly Mr Sunburnman you really think you do know it all don't you?

What amazes me the most, is one simple fact - media capacity. No matter how you look at it, capacity is _very_ important for any hi-definition title these days. Sure, you can get media from the inet as a network download but look at the stats for consoles - even the Xbox 360 has roughly only a 20% coverage of owners who have some sort of online account with MS. On PS2, it is as low as 5% - you cant supply a major market game to an audience of only 5%.

The PS3 market Im sure will be many more online, but the PS2 upgraders won't necessarily. You could be real optimistic and say that you will get say triple the amount of the market online (from the upgraders), but it is still a small portion compared to the non-online gamers. This being the case.. Blu-Ray is going to matter BIGTIME. And thats whether you like Xbox or PS..

If you have worked on any games, capacity of the media is nearly always an issue. And it is even more an issue with multi-language/multi-region skews on the one disk. You need multiple sets of audio, multiple sets of textures (mainly ones with text/references in it), and other assets that needs to be replicated. (sometimes complete cutscene movies). A PS3 game could _easily_ use up a DVD's space without a problem, when you are talking hi-def audio and hid-def resolutions.

It really doesn't matter what hi-def platform this refers to, its all about delivering content. The more space you have the FAR easier it is to deliver it. Anyone who says otherwise, is simply not thinking. As a developer, look at the question: Could you use more space to store data on? .. who is ever going to say no?

Ryan H. · 06-02-2007, 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grover

Im very surprised at some of these responses, and honestly Mr Sunburnman you really think you do know it all don't you?

That's really not the best way to introduce yourself to the forum, good sir. Welcome to PSXE, though

As for your comments on what developer would not want more media space, that's really not the best way to address the issue, IMO. Yes any developer in his right mind is going to take more space if offered, but that doesn't make said extra space either practical or necessary. While I think capacity may play a role in future titles, it's certainly not a system killing obstacle, and never has been.

Dmitry M. (Lazer) · 06-02-2007, 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grover

Im very surprised at some of these responses, and honestly Mr Sunburnman you really think you do know it all don't you?

What amazes me the most, is one simple fact - media capacity. No matter how you look at it, capacity is _very_ important for any hi-definition title these days. Sure, you can get media from the inet as a network download but look at the stats for consoles - even the Xbox 360 has roughly only a 20% coverage of owners who have some sort of online account with MS. On PS2, it is as low as 5% - you cant supply a major market game to an audience of only 5%.

The PS3 market Im sure will be many more online, but the PS2 upgraders won't necessarily. You could be real optimistic and say that you will get say triple the amount of the market online (from the upgraders), but it is still a small portion compared to the non-online gamers. This being the case.. Blu-Ray is going to matter BIGTIME. And thats whether you like Xbox or PS..

If you have worked on any games, capacity of the media is nearly always an issue. And it is even more an issue with multi-language/multi-region skews on the one disk. You need multiple sets of audio, multiple sets of textures (mainly ones with text/references in it), and other assets that needs to be replicated. (sometimes complete cutscene movies). A PS3 game could _easily_ use up a DVD's space without a problem, when you are talking hi-def audio and hid-def resolutions.

It really doesn't matter what hi-def platform this refers to, its all about delivering content. The more space you have the FAR easier it is to deliver it. Anyone who says otherwise, is simply not thinking. As a developer, look at the question: Could you use more space to store data on? .. who is ever going to say no?

Well since you know so much about game developing, maybe i should inform you the fact that PC games are still being made on CD media and only now starting to be made more so on DVD Media.

As far as CD, DVD, Blu-Ray, or HD-DVD media goes, it is not as important as the actual HDD or flash drive. HD quality can be done on any HDD so long as the video card supports HD. My computer for example can run HD quality movies or games without a Blu-Ray or HD-DVD player.

Capacity is important and that is what everyone is saying, but is Blu-Ray or HD-DVD necessary, in my opinion, NO. As Ryan stated, "While I think capacity may play a role in future titles, it's certainly not a system killing obstacle, and never has been."

EDIT:
Let me inform you that i'm in no way bias to the XBox360 or the PS3, i own neither console and i actually prefer the PS3 over the XBox360.

Mr. SunburnMan · 06-03-2007, 08:40 AM

Grover, of course Blu-Ray is beneficial, and I've never denied that. What I'm claiming is that it's not necessary, and that there are other alternatives to Blu-Ray that would have been feasible at a lesser cost. And again, I'm not saying that the competition have better storage solutions (they don't). I've said this multiple times in this thread alone, I suggest to read my posts before slamming me on things that I'm not claiming.

The issue at hand is not whether Blu-Ray is beneficial or not (it is). And not if it's necessary or not (it isn't). However, are the benefits are worth the extra cost for gaming customers (and I'm talking strictly about gaming here)? I'd venture into saying 'No'.

Arnold K. (Admin) · 06-03-2007, 01:10 PM

"While I think capacity may play a role in future titles, it's certainly not a system killing obstacle, and never has been."

Nintendo 64.

Ryan H. · 06-03-2007, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arnold K. (Admin)

"While I think capacity may play a role in future titles, it's certainly not a system killing obstacle, and never has been."

Nintendo 64.

Touche

However, while you can easily make that argument about the N64, I think what killed that system was development cost and third party support. If you look at Conker's Bad Fur Day, it's pretty clear that there wasn't anything on the PS1 that the N64 couldn't handle despite its capacity, save lots of FF style FMVs. I will, however, agree that the capacity limitations most certainly did not help.

Mr. SunburnMan · 06-03-2007, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arnold K. (Admin)

"While I think capacity may play a role in future titles, it's certainly not a system killing obstacle, and never has been."

Nintendo 64.

It's not the same thing at all. There weren't alternatives for the n64 (ie multi-cart games). You were stuck with the limits and the prices of memory.

Gamecube would've been the better comparison.

Gabriel013 · 06-04-2007, 01:39 AM

I'd hate a return of mulitple disc games. I was a little pissed at DoW on the PC as it's over a few discs. For me, the bigger storage disc is necessary. I think someone earlier said Resistance was 20gb. However you look at it, that won't fit on a standard DVD. I wan to be able to load up my game and play all the way through, possibly without ever getting up of my backside, and also without using up many gb of storage space on my HD.

Addressing Dmitry regarding downloads and HD's. I don't want to have to buy HD's for my console in the same way people do for their PC's. After the initial outlay that should be it aside from extra controllers and the likes.
Download speeds on the US may be fantastic but in Europe (maybe specifically the UK) they certainly aren't. I'd hazzard a guess that there are still plenty of homes on dial up and the majority will only be on 2-8mb dl speeds. Heck, even where I work I think we only get a 10mb connection and we're an IT company!

I thought the post from Grover was quite good with the possible exclusion of his first line. Welcome to the forum.

06-02-2007, 05:09 PM	#42
cAtDaFeLiX The Fallen Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Canada Xbox Live ID: catdafelix Posts: 3,001	I'm still waiting for the "format wars" to end. I won't get the Xbox 360 HD-DVD add-on until I know there's a clear winner and I won't buy any Blu-Ray or HD-DVD until there is also. If games will require the HD-DVD add-on for games I'll guess I'll spring for one. __________________ Last edited by cAtDaFeLiX : 06-02-2007 at 05:11 PM.

06-03-2007, 08:40 AM	#46
Mr. SunburnMan I don't own a ps3 Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 4,484	Grover, of course Blu-Ray is beneficial, and I've never denied that. What I'm claiming is that it's not necessary, and that there are other alternatives to Blu-Ray that would have been feasible at a lesser cost. And again, I'm not saying that the competition have better storage solutions (they don't). I've said this multiple times in this thread alone, I suggest to read my posts before slamming me on things that I'm not claiming. The issue at hand is not whether Blu-Ray is beneficial or not (it is). And not if it's necessary or not (it isn't). However, are the benefits are worth the extra cost for gaming customers (and I'm talking strictly about gaming here)? I'd venture into saying 'No'. __________________ Last edited by Mr. SunburnMan : 06-03-2007 at 08:48 AM.

06-04-2007, 01:39 AM	#50
Gabriel013 ArchAngel Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Sheffield, England PS3 Network ID: gabriel013 Xbox Live ID: Gabriel013 Posts: 6,656	I'd hate a return of mulitple disc games. I was a little pissed at DoW on the PC as it's over a few discs. For me, the bigger storage disc is necessary. I think someone earlier said Resistance was 20gb. However you look at it, that won't fit on a standard DVD. I wan to be able to load up my game and play all the way through, possibly without ever getting up of my backside, and also without using up many gb of storage space on my HD. Addressing Dmitry regarding downloads and HD's. I don't want to have to buy HD's for my console in the same way people do for their PC's. After the initial outlay that should be it aside from extra controllers and the likes. Download speeds on the US may be fantastic but in Europe (maybe specifically the UK) they certainly aren't. I'd hazzard a guess that there are still plenty of homes on dial up and the majority will only be on 2-8mb dl speeds. Heck, even where I work I think we only get a 10mb connection and we're an IT company! I thought the post from Grover was quite good with the possible exclusion of his first line. Welcome to the forum. __________________ \"...and he shall ascend from the fires of Hell...\" "everyone knows second hand squirrel kills." - Svosen 3 forum tokens

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06-02-2007, 05:58 PM	#43
Grover Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 1	Im very surprised at some of these responses, and honestly Mr Sunburnman you really think you do know it all don't you? What amazes me the most, is one simple fact - media capacity. No matter how you look at it, capacity is _very_ important for any hi-definition title these days. Sure, you can get media from the inet as a network download but look at the stats for consoles - even the Xbox 360 has roughly only a 20% coverage of owners who have some sort of online account with MS. On PS2, it is as low as 5% - you cant supply a major market game to an audience of only 5%. The PS3 market Im sure will be many more online, but the PS2 upgraders won't necessarily. You could be real optimistic and say that you will get say triple the amount of the market online (from the upgraders), but it is still a small portion compared to the non-online gamers. This being the case.. Blu-Ray is going to matter BIGTIME. And thats whether you like Xbox or PS.. If you have worked on any games, capacity of the media is nearly always an issue. And it is even more an issue with multi-language/multi-region skews on the one disk. You need multiple sets of audio, multiple sets of textures (mainly ones with text/references in it), and other assets that needs to be replicated. (sometimes complete cutscene movies). A PS3 game could _easily_ use up a DVD's space without a problem, when you are talking hi-def audio and hid-def resolutions. It really doesn't matter what hi-def platform this refers to, its all about delivering content. The more space you have the FAR easier it is to deliver it. Anyone who says otherwise, is simply not thinking. As a developer, look at the question: Could you use more space to store data on? .. who is ever going to say no?

06-03-2007, 01:10 PM	#47
Arnold K. (Admin) Administrator Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 6,643	"While I think capacity may play a role in future titles, it's certainly not a system killing obstacle, and never has been." Nintendo 64.