Arnold K. (Admin)

That was true in the N64, SNES and NES era, but GC mini-DVDs are not proprietary medium. So Nintendo makes as much as Sony and MS when granting a publisher manufacturing rights for a game. Nintendo's profits have been PROVEN to be 70% from the hand-held market, so that is the #1 reason they are making so much money right now. I don't hate Nintendo, I love them. Shit, I grew up with my SNES. I just hate Nintendo's ethics...


...very, very much.

Ryan H.

Yeah, well, had to get my two cents in.

As for what may happen in the years to come, I still see a three console market, for several reasons:

Every company has a different plan. Microsoft wants an all inclusive home entertainment system; the XBOX was just the first step.

Nintendo was, is, and always will be about console games. People bitch about their lack of an online plan. Well, I have news for you, that IS their plan. I see Nintendo continuing to focus efforts on offline gaming.

I see Sony somewhere in the middle, playing to that casual gamer like they've been doing so well. While I see Sony's future platforms being much more online oriented than Nintendo's, I also see Sony systems being less geared towards the whole "all in one package", and more like a dedicated gaming machine, both online and off.

I also see all of them being successful with such plans. People say "gamers are growing up, Nintendo needs to get with it". True, but new gamers are also being born every day, raised by us aging gamers. There will always be a market for Nintendo.

Microsoft will be pushing those kinds of systems that are almost like status symbols: For the people out there that want a system that lets you rip songs, get online, play games, write term papers, call your mom long distance, and that makes your coffee for you in the morning, MS systems are being geared towards you.

Sony will, hopefully, keep doing what they're doing- making systems and creating content that walks that middle ground so damn nicely.

GameGuyPete

Those are some solid arguments, Ryan.

You're right. Nintendo's profits don't just come from the GBA, but a solid majority of those profits do. Nintendo's established GC userbase in North America, despite Nintendo's strong name recognition and experience, is still behind Microsoft-- dwelling in last place. That image is key to the casual gaming majority that will be making the next system-buying decisions in a year or three.

Speaking of image, regardless of whether it's Nintendo's third-party business practices or whether it's the fact that GC sales aren't where they should be, it's certainly a negative to see third-party support starting to collapse a bit. Sure, new agreements with Capcom and with Konami (for MGS) certainly help, but losing support from high profile publishers like TH*Q, Sega, Activision, and EA certainly sticks out. Nintendo's image is further hampered by recent business decisions (like the $10 Players' Choice gouge and the bad timing of the GBA SP announcement, like I mentioned earlier on).

I wouldn't presume to argue about Nintendo's profitability and the fact that they're not going anywhere for the foreseeable future. They can certainly survive, just as they've done since the N64 days, by publishing 5-6 first-party titles a year, getting occasional third-party backing, and continuing to exploit their "money" franchises (i.e. Mario, Zelda, Pokemon, etc.). I really do believe Nintendo President Iwata's statement saying that Nintendo will close its doors before going third-party.

While Nintendo may not be going anywhere, they're not putting themselves in a great position to make up ground in the next generation, either.

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Ryan H.

I couldn't agree with you more. I just get tired of all the "N64 was a failure, N is doomed." Just like I hate all the anti XBOX crap that was flying around last year.

Also, I wouldn't call Metroid a 'money' franchise, at least not in the sense that Mario or Zelda is. I know what you mean, but I think they really did something great with that series after a long hiatus and I don't think they just exploited the name Metroid.

Also, as for the timing of the release of the SP, I have to admit that no matter how you cut it, that was one damn smart and practical move on their part. Sure, had I just bought a GBA I would be pissed. But when you think about it, how many times have gamers been burned by such things, i.e. buying a PS2 only to see the price drop $50 2 weeks later?

And Arnold, for the record, I understand that the GC is not making as much money per game as their previous systems did, but then again I WAS speaking to the so called failure of the N64.

By the by, it's REALLY cool to see you over here, Pete. I remember you from GS (I was Solid Snake over there). It's always nice to have someone of your intelligence here at PSXE.

GameGuyPete

Yeah... I'll agree that Metroid isn't the "money" franchise that I was alluding to... although with the critical acclaim that Metroid Prime has garnered, the franchise could be reborn.

You nailed the flip side of the GBA SP argument that I made right on the head. At least a model is finally coming down the pike with lighting and a rechargeable battery. I do suppose that bad timing happens to everyone, like the price drop scenario you mentioned. I'm not sure how I feel about the smaller design, although the flip top will hopefully prevent unnecessary scratch damage to the screen.

Lastly, thanks for the kind words, Ryan. I'm glad I made it in. I'm having a blast here, and it's always good to see a familiar face... in a virtual sense, of course.

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farfus

Metroid Prime is what launched me into buying a GC back in November. And while its a road i have traveled before, its been a while since i experienced the quality trip that Metroid was. I figure with a good to great game to anticipate about every 3-4 months (Zelda, anyone), i can be a member of the Nintendo Quality over Quantity crew....

PlaystationFan

Personally, i got rid of my gamecube in favor of my nintendo 64. I play my 64 all the time. My GC never got played at all. So i sold it to someone who could actually play it and like it. I would do the same with my Xbox if it werent for Ninja Gaiden and Halo 2.

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Rosencrantz

Ouch! Arnold burns down NIntendo House!

Although I agree with most of your points I wouldn't necessarily say Nintendo is getting owned by the X-Box. Nintendo may be in last place in terms of worldwide sales, but look at what the X-Box has had to do to just barely be beating Nintendo. Nintendo is making way more profit from GC than Microsoft is making off the hurting X-Box. Microsoft can't seem to sell ANY X-Boxes if they aren't practically giving them away. This tells me that most people aren't really interested in X-Box and only buy one because it was a better deal. I probably would have bought an X-Box if I didn't already have a PS2. I would have seen the bundle deal and said, "The console does't really have anything that interests me but I get two free games!"

Yeah, yeah...I've heard it before from fanboys on the GS forums. Microsoft is only trying to get a foot in the door. Well, don't forget that Microsoft originally projected to turn a profit in 2004. That was quickly pushed back shortly after release and then eventually reduced to NO profit from X-Box. It will be interesting to see what happens next gen. I predict that Microsoft will have the same problem next time, with nobody buying the console for full price.

Even according to Gamerankings, the GC has more games in the top 200 than X-Box. So obviously when it comes to AAA games, Nintendo is leading X-Box. By the looks of things that wont change any time soon.

So far, the X-Box is king of graphics but little else. It doesn't match up to any system in terms of number of AAA games or even OK to GOOD games. So it looks like X-Box doesn't really excell in any area when it comes to what is most important..games. This is all subjective, of course, so I am going by gamerankings scoring.

I think Nintendos biggest problem is their inability to innovate and their insistence on being a "family" game system. Nintendo should make their console more appealing to the average gamer. Even their biggest franchises have been given the "kiddie" make over this time. Mario was given a water gun, Luigi a vacuum cleaner, Link went loony-tunes, Pikmin (although good) is very "kiddie" looking. One of their best games (ED) doesn't even have that good of graphics because it was a remodeled N64 game.

Nintendo needs to make their next console a real console in terms of look and appeal. No more multi-coloured consoles. Especially since they try to force you to buy one colour over another. No more lame cube shapes. sure it is small and cute, but that isn't what people want. They want sleek and stylish. Also Nintendo needs to explore new ground. Lets see some NEW franchises and not just more of the "same old". Lets see REAL graphical upgrades and not just make games more cartoonish.

Frankly, I love my PS2 and if I were to get another system it would be a GC, but I think Nintendo is getting too lazy and reliant on their own franchises. However, I would like to add that Eternal Dark and Metroid Prime were awesome. Better than anything the X-Box has to offer in my opinion.

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GameGuyPete

Ahhh... Rosencrantz is another GS forums vet. Same here... and Ryan Hartmann's part of the "club" (if you wanna call it that) too.

First off, let's tackle the XBox for a minute. I'm in agreement with your points about MS practically giving systems away or having to include some kind of incentive to generate sales. However, let's remember that once MS gets the systems into people's homes, money usually starts coming back right away once consumers start buying the software. Software is where the money is made, and the more installed units you have to push that software on, the more money you can make. Yes, there's no denying that MS loses a significant amount of cash on the hardware, but as software sales ramp up, MS stands to make up some of that money. It's like the "razor blade" theory-- if you buy a Mach 3 razor, you pay, what... $7 or so? Once you use up the two starter blades, getting replacement blades costs almost twice that-- despite the fact that the blades only cost a fraction of that to make. The blades are where Gillette makes their money-- not the razor, itself. You see?

Now to the subject at hand-- Nintendo. Nintendo has always been good at making-- and marketing-- their first-party games. They've got killer licenses at their disposal which can sell games at the drop of a hat. If a new Mario, Zelda, or Pokemon title is announced, fans immediately sit up and take notice. Their games are consistently receiving critical acclaim... I personally can't always justify the high scores that they get (I mean, come on... SMS was the most overrated game of 2002), but they do score well on average. On the other hand, Microsoft's first-party arm isn't that solid yet and they rely more on third-party help.

Nintendo's biggest problem, as I've alluded to several times within this popular thread, lies in its image. Nintendo is content to keep doing what they're doing, damning the consequences. It's almost as if Nintendo refuses to acknowledge the fact that casual gamers have assumed the consumer majority in the gaming community. Rather than trying to even slightly adjust their image, Nintendo is content to continue releasing more family-oriented stuff, like the incessantly cartoonish Mario games, or bringing Link into the age of animation from a pseudo-lifelike look. They refuse to acknowledge the importance of software balance and the importance of solid third-party publisher relationships. They don't even react when third-party project cancellations become public. They're Nintendo, and they're invincible-- or so they think.

The thing that bothers me about the Big "N" is that, despite the disappointments, they still prosper. There's nothing that can happen to make them look inwards and address their image problems, because they're still laughing all the way to the bank. Sony is also becoming somewhat guilty of this, too, because of their extreme success in this generation and the last. Microsoft, on the other hand, is trying to prove legitimacy in the console business and is therefore the most active player in trying to create and maintain a somewhat positive image... even if their near-monopoly in the OS industry bothers more people every day.

I understand where you're coming from in regards to the "kiddie" argument, but it's been done to death and that's the last thing that Nintendo will change. As long as the legions of Nintendo fans keep buying into Nintendo's ideas and buying up chapter after chapter of Mario and Zelda, Nintendo's got no reason to listen to you, me, or anyone else.

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Sweet Tooth

Well MS is generating some pretty good profit now with Xbox Live and holiday sales. Say all you want about bundling, it worked and that's all that matters. Give people a little incentive to buy a system. Put some pretty damn good games in the package and get their interest up. Eventually their friends will play with them and come away impressed tell their friends who tell their friends and so on.

Also XBOX Live sold alot better than most people, including Microsoft thought it would. They sold over 100,000 more Xbox Live starter kits than they originally planned and that's suprising from many reasons

1. The Xbox is just starting to get itself out there and starting to garner attention

2. Online gaming has started off slow and the fact that they sold more than expected is a good sign

3. This can only be enjoyed by people with broadband connections which isn't even half of the American population.

4. There is a bit of commitment when it comes to Xbox Live with the yearly subscription and all.

Right now the sales for Xbox aren't big but they are in front of Nintendo's. If things pick up and keep going the way they've been going they can be a heavy competitor.

Nintendo is doing just enough to survive. Why would a company be satisfied with having the least profit making product out there. Sure GBA brings them alot of money but what other handleheld compeititor is there? THERE ISN'T ANY! I guarantee if Sony developed a bit more superior handheld with proper marketing then Nintendo can't be doing what they've been doing.

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