You know, it's funny watching Nintendo get owned by a newcomer AGAIN! - Page 11

Arnold K. (Admin) · 03-05-2003, 02:14 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tosser00

Pikmin: You disliked it.

Eternal Darkness: You disliked it.

Animal Crossing: You disliked it.

Those are three games released within the console's first year that you didn't like. Three very new, and original Nintendo properties that you didn't like. Two of these games I am positive did not sell well. It's not that new game designs/concepts don't work, they just don't work for Nintendo.

The little I played of Pikmin, I liked it...it was just too short.

Eternal Darkness has been done before. It's story is quite unique, but it's gameplay isn't really anything I haven't played before.

Animal Crossing: I actually didn't even bring this game up ONCE. And for the record, I thought it ****ing rocked.

Anything else you'd like to contribute, kids?

Ryan H. · 03-05-2003, 03:13 AM

I think we need to stop arguing about it. Trying to convince someone that X console is better than Y console is like trying to convince someone that apples are better than oranges. It's all preference, and none of us can do anything to change that. Arnold and I found that out in our nightly staff meeting, didn't we Arnold?

Arnold K. (Admin) · 03-05-2003, 04:19 AM

I hear that.

Rosencrantz · 03-05-2003, 10:33 AM

I agree with what you are saying Arnold. Nintendo IS stuck in it's mindset...the same mindset it had 10 years ago. I too think Nintendo needs to put their quality into new and exciting titles. Their old stand bys are great games I think and I even really liked Mario Sunshine. However, it is always the same. People want fresh new ideas and nobody is buying the GC because of this lack of innovation.

Why does't Nintendo put more emphasis into their games? I mean even with the GBA they are mostly repackaging old names.

Nintendo needs to get with the present and find a new line of titles. Kind of like what Capcom has been doing lately with those "Big 5" or whatever. Trying something new can lead to a major hit and new interest in your company. I know I'm still drooling over shots of Killer 7.

I'm not going to try and defend Nintendo because I think all the criticism has bene fair. I'm not trying to attack the X-Box, but I DO think the praise is slightly unfair. At least when it comes at the expense of the GC. People just tend to forget that X-Box is where it is, not necessarily because people love it, or because of games. It is where it is because Microsoft has the money to practically give consoles away if they have to.

However, there is no denying that if you chart X-Box sales you will get a graph full of huge spikes followed by equally huge drops. These spikes are from all the new deals and price cuts. The drops are sales once the novelty of the deal wears off. My argument is that the X-Box is the biggest disappointment because it should have been so much more and sold so much better from the Microsoft name alone. GC is suffering from the disappontment over the N64 and the X-Box is still barely beating it (if it actually is this week).

Like I said, the test will be next generation. Will Nintendo finally get with the times? Will people want to buy an X-Box 2 when it is full price or will Micrsoft go for no profits again in order to continue sticking their foot in the door? Will Sony make a more developer friendly console? I still think it is too early to make the call, but Sony hasn't let me down yet so I am sticking with them for now.

Arnold K. (Admin) · 03-05-2003, 01:20 PM

Look at a title like Jak and Daxter (1 million seller), look at Ratchet and Clank (400,000+ sold), look at Sly Cooper (200,000+ sold), look at Socom (800,000+ sold), look at Dark Cloud (700,000+ sold), etc, etc...all of those franchises are brand NEW franchises, and are selling remarkably well.

Rosen: Just for the record, in the North American and PAL regions, the Xbox is outselling the GameCube 2:1 (there's over a one million sales margin in each zone). As far as Japan goes, the Xbox has yet to break 1 million, meanwhile I don't believe the GameCube has managed to break 3 million, itself. What I do know is that the Xbox is the #2 selling console (handheld excluded).

GameGuyPete · 03-05-2003, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Arnold K. (EIC)
Look at a title like Jak and Daxter (1 million seller), look at Ratchet and Clank (400,000+ sold), look at Sly Cooper (200,000+ sold), look at Socom (800,000+ sold), look at Dark Cloud (700,000+ sold), etc, etc...all of those franchises are brand NEW franchises, and are selling remarkably well.

Rosen: Just for the record, in the North American and PAL regions, the Xbox is outselling the GameCube 2:1 (there's over a one million sales margin in each zone). As far as Japan goes, the Xbox has yet to break 1 million, meanwhile I don't believe the GameCube has managed to break 3 million, itself. What I do know is that the Xbox is the #2 selling console (handheld excluded).

NPD sales numbers have finally come out for January. Take a look at these:

PS2: 16,082,909 total units sold in the US as of 1/31/2003.
XBox: 4,736,351 total units sold in the US as of 1/31/2003.
GC: 3,510,533 total units sold in the US as of 1/31/2003.

The difference between XBox and GC sales is 1,225,818 units.

The only HUGE lead is held by the PS2. That's simply dominant.

I have the NPD spreadsheet if anyone has any questions about which games have sold how many.

The Benny (Macho) · 03-05-2003, 07:50 PM

To be honest the reason why I think Nintendo won't create brand new platformers that don't revolve around Mario and Luigi (and maybe Donkey Kong now that Rare have had to give him back) is because at the minute Nintendo does have a core base of fanatical Nintendo-worshippers that will support Nintendo regardless. They can currently be guaranteed a certain number of sales because there's people who will defintely purchase their stuff. By moving away from established characters to try and attract new gamers they risk alienating their die-hard fans, and could end up with no fans at all.
It is a bit cowardly certainly, but it's the way it is right now. At the minute I've been very happy with Nintendo's offerings so I don't really want them to change. But eventually I think they're going to reach a point where they'll have to change or die out completely, maybe with their next console. At the moment they're acting under the (probably false) belief that if they get their next console out at the same time as Sony and Microsoft then they'll do a lot better. If things don't go as planned this time then it might be the wake-up call they need and hopefully we'll see a Nintendo rebirth, establishing some kind of balance between existing franchises and brand new ones.

I stand by my comments on GTA, other than visually I found no great improvements over the first game. It played exactly the same in my opinion, but maybe that's something we'll just have to agree to disagree on.
I'd argue about the comparison between SSBM and DOA3. While they're both fighting games they're very different, at least from what I know of DOA3 (I haven't actually played it).

Arnold K. (Admin) · 03-05-2003, 09:04 PM

You know, Macho, Nintendo can still make new franchises WITHOUT abandoning their older ones...now there's a thought!

Pikmin, albeit a new franchise, is FAR too niche and spelled its own doom before it came out. I mean come on, it was a pretty good game, although a bit too short, but it's a strategy game, it's quite the departure from the incredible adventure and platform titles that all Nintendo fans have grown accustomed to.

Oooh, for the record, I love Pokemon, so that's another quality about Nintendo -- or more so the GBA -- that I love.

Mr. SunburnMan · 03-06-2003, 08:55 AM

Nintendo should just come out with GameCube Wars.

The Benny (Macho) · 03-06-2003, 09:11 PM

On a side note, got an email from Nintendo Europe the other day announcing their Metroid Prime competiton (design a Metroid Prime website and send it to them), with seven runner-up prizes of a GameCube with Metroid Prime. The main prize? A life-size model of Samus. No offense to the lady but I know which I'd rather win..

Anyway Snake, my point was that if they came up with a brand new franchise that seemed to replace any of the existing ones from the start then those die-hard Nintendo fans (that everybody must of had to deal with at some point or another) would be pretty annoyed, maybe even feel betrayed by it. Bear in mind that 'Cube is still pretty new (it's not even a year old over here yet) so I for one would expect them to start things off by revamping their most popular franchises, satisfying the 'true' Nintendo fans.
Then once the classics have been given a whirl hopefully some new franchises would emerge. As I said GC hasn't been out too long and there have been several new franchises created, niche or not - Pikmin, Animal Crossing and Eternal Darkness being the ones that spring to mind, and may in fact be all of the new franchises that have made it out of Japan.

Here's all the major Nintendo franchises that I can think of:

The Mario Brothers - Covered in Luigi's Mansion, Super Mario Sunshine and the forthcoming 'Mario 128'
Zelda - Covered In Wind Waker
Star Fox - Got Star Fox Adventures, with probably a more traditional Star Fox game planned at some point
Mario Kart - Being worked on
Mario Party - We've had Mario Party 4, probably a few more coming during 'Cube's lifespan
Metroid - Although left alone for ages we've had a revival (thanks to Smash Brothers I suppose) with Metroid Prime
Smash Brothers - Done in Super Smash Brothers Melee
Wario - Wario World is coming soon
Pokémon - Never had a proper home-console game (Pokémon Snap doesn't count), but there will probably be a new Pokémon Stadium after GBA's Ruby & Sapphire are released. A GC version of the GBA games would be fantastic, but would probably kill off the GBA versions so is unlikely.
Kirby - More of a GBA resident, but may well get a 'Cube game.
Donkey Kong - Obviously this franchise won't die, so we'll more than likely have a 'Cube version eventually.
Yoshi - He did get his own 64 game, so it's possible.

That leaves five franschises unexplored so far that I can think of (there's probably more but my brain can't fit any more Nintendo goodness into it at the moment), though a proper Pokémon title is unlikely and I'm not too sure about Yoshi either. Hopefully once all of their existing avenues have been explored there will be something new and major.

03-05-2003, 03:13 AM	#102
Ryan H. Forum Ninja Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Milpitas, CA PS2 Online ID: Drunken Xbox Live ID: BionicDrunken Posts: 3,965	I think we need to stop arguing about it. Trying to convince someone that X console is better than Y console is like trying to convince someone that apples are better than oranges. It's all preference, and none of us can do anything to change that. Arnold and I found that out in our nightly staff meeting, didn't we Arnold? __________________ ReunionTour - Tactical Forum Action

03-05-2003, 10:33 AM	#104
Rosencrantz Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 171	I agree with what you are saying Arnold. Nintendo IS stuck in it's mindset...the same mindset it had 10 years ago. I too think Nintendo needs to put their quality into new and exciting titles. Their old stand bys are great games I think and I even really liked Mario Sunshine. However, it is always the same. People want fresh new ideas and nobody is buying the GC because of this lack of innovation. Why does't Nintendo put more emphasis into their games? I mean even with the GBA they are mostly repackaging old names. Nintendo needs to get with the present and find a new line of titles. Kind of like what Capcom has been doing lately with those "Big 5" or whatever. Trying something new can lead to a major hit and new interest in your company. I know I'm still drooling over shots of Killer 7. I'm not going to try and defend Nintendo because I think all the criticism has bene fair. I'm not trying to attack the X-Box, but I DO think the praise is slightly unfair. At least when it comes at the expense of the GC. People just tend to forget that X-Box is where it is, not necessarily because people love it, or because of games. It is where it is because Microsoft has the money to practically give consoles away if they have to. However, there is no denying that if you chart X-Box sales you will get a graph full of huge spikes followed by equally huge drops. These spikes are from all the new deals and price cuts. The drops are sales once the novelty of the deal wears off. My argument is that the X-Box is the biggest disappointment because it should have been so much more and sold so much better from the Microsoft name alone. GC is suffering from the disappontment over the N64 and the X-Box is still barely beating it (if it actually is this week). Like I said, the test will be next generation. Will Nintendo finally get with the times? Will people want to buy an X-Box 2 when it is full price or will Micrsoft go for no profits again in order to continue sticking their foot in the door? Will Sony make a more developer friendly console? I still think it is too early to make the call, but Sony hasn't let me down yet so I am sticking with them for now. __________________ “Life is no way to treat an animal.\"

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03-05-2003, 04:19 AM	#103
Arnold K. (Admin) Administrator Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 6,643	I hear that.

03-05-2003, 01:20 PM	#105
Arnold K. (Admin) Administrator Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 6,643	Look at a title like Jak and Daxter (1 million seller), look at Ratchet and Clank (400,000+ sold), look at Sly Cooper (200,000+ sold), look at Socom (800,000+ sold), look at Dark Cloud (700,000+ sold), etc, etc...all of those franchises are brand NEW franchises, and are selling remarkably well. Rosen: Just for the record, in the North American and PAL regions, the Xbox is outselling the GameCube 2:1 (there's over a one million sales margin in each zone). As far as Japan goes, the Xbox has yet to break 1 million, meanwhile I don't believe the GameCube has managed to break 3 million, itself. What I do know is that the Xbox is the #2 selling console (handheld excluded).

03-05-2003, 07:50 PM	#107
The Benny (Macho) Complainer of the year Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: England Posts: 1,516	To be honest the reason why I think Nintendo won't create brand new platformers that don't revolve around Mario and Luigi (and maybe Donkey Kong now that Rare have had to give him back) is because at the minute Nintendo does have a core base of fanatical Nintendo-worshippers that will support Nintendo regardless. They can currently be guaranteed a certain number of sales because there's people who will defintely purchase their stuff. By moving away from established characters to try and attract new gamers they risk alienating their die-hard fans, and could end up with no fans at all. It is a bit cowardly certainly, but it's the way it is right now. At the minute I've been very happy with Nintendo's offerings so I don't really want them to change. But eventually I think they're going to reach a point where they'll have to change or die out completely, maybe with their next console. At the moment they're acting under the (probably false) belief that if they get their next console out at the same time as Sony and Microsoft then they'll do a lot better. If things don't go as planned this time then it might be the wake-up call they need and hopefully we'll see a Nintendo rebirth, establishing some kind of balance between existing franchises and brand new ones. I stand by my comments on GTA, other than visually I found no great improvements over the first game. It played exactly the same in my opinion, but maybe that's something we'll just have to agree to disagree on. I'd argue about the comparison between SSBM and DOA3. While they're both fighting games they're very different, at least from what I know of DOA3 (I haven't actually played it).

03-05-2003, 09:04 PM	#108
Arnold K. (Admin) Administrator Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 6,643	You know, Macho, Nintendo can still make new franchises WITHOUT abandoning their older ones...now there's a thought! Pikmin, albeit a new franchise, is FAR too niche and spelled its own doom before it came out. I mean come on, it was a pretty good game, although a bit too short, but it's a strategy game, it's quite the departure from the incredible adventure and platform titles that all Nintendo fans have grown accustomed to. Oooh, for the record, I love Pokemon, so that's another quality about Nintendo -- or more so the GBA -- that I love.

03-06-2003, 08:55 AM	#109
Mr. SunburnMan I don't own a ps3 Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 4,508	Nintendo should just come out with GameCube Wars.

03-06-2003, 09:11 PM	#110
The Benny (Macho) Complainer of the year Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: England Posts: 1,516	On a side note, got an email from Nintendo Europe the other day announcing their Metroid Prime competiton (design a Metroid Prime website and send it to them), with seven runner-up prizes of a GameCube with Metroid Prime. The main prize? A life-size model of Samus. No offense to the lady but I know which I'd rather win.. Anyway Snake, my point was that if they came up with a brand new franchise that seemed to replace any of the existing ones from the start then those die-hard Nintendo fans (that everybody must of had to deal with at some point or another) would be pretty annoyed, maybe even feel betrayed by it. Bear in mind that 'Cube is still pretty new (it's not even a year old over here yet) so I for one would expect them to start things off by revamping their most popular franchises, satisfying the 'true' Nintendo fans. Then once the classics have been given a whirl hopefully some new franchises would emerge. As I said GC hasn't been out too long and there have been several new franchises created, niche or not - Pikmin, Animal Crossing and Eternal Darkness being the ones that spring to mind, and may in fact be all of the new franchises that have made it out of Japan. Here's all the major Nintendo franchises that I can think of: The Mario Brothers - Covered in Luigi's Mansion, Super Mario Sunshine and the forthcoming 'Mario 128' Zelda - Covered In Wind Waker Star Fox - Got Star Fox Adventures, with probably a more traditional Star Fox game planned at some point Mario Kart - Being worked on Mario Party - We've had Mario Party 4, probably a few more coming during 'Cube's lifespan Metroid - Although left alone for ages we've had a revival (thanks to Smash Brothers I suppose) with Metroid Prime Smash Brothers - Done in Super Smash Brothers Melee Wario - Wario World is coming soon Pokémon - Never had a proper home-console game (Pokémon Snap doesn't count), but there will probably be a new Pokémon Stadium after GBA's Ruby & Sapphire are released. A GC version of the GBA games would be fantastic, but would probably kill off the GBA versions so is unlikely. Kirby - More of a GBA resident, but may well get a 'Cube game. Donkey Kong - Obviously this franchise won't die, so we'll more than likely have a 'Cube version eventually. Yoshi - He did get his own 64 game, so it's possible. That leaves five franschises unexplored so far that I can think of (there's probably more but my brain can't fit any more Nintendo goodness into it at the moment), though a proper Pokémon title is unlikely and I'm not too sure about Yoshi either. Hopefully once all of their existing avenues have been explored there will be something new and major.