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Old 12-02-2010   #1
Spartan119
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Default David Jaffe "I can't have an opinion?"

Just read this on the main page, thought it would be fun to talk about, especially since it's been pretty dead in here lately :

http://www.psxextreme.com/ps3-news/8197.html

I think it's interesting given the sentiment among (some, NOT ALL) people here re: Valve. Valve has been accused of being 'lazy' for not developing for PS3 historically (though yes that has changed), and it brings to mind other developers such as Epic.

I very much agree that Jaffe has every right to his opinion and platform preference, but does it go both ways? Is Valve's preference (pre-Portal 2) for PC/360 on par with such sentiments? Does Epic have some sort of obligation to develop for PS3? Does Insomniac going multiplat change how some view them? What if Bungie decides, even after signing the deal with Activision, that they want to stick with 360-only because of their relationship with MS?

I like exclusives as much as anyone, I'm happy MGS4 stayed PS3 exclusive (in fact I won $20 betting it would on another forum), I'm happy Epic is sticking with 360 for Gears, etc., but at what point do you think a developer needs to reach beyond personal preference? How important are multiplatform games to you?

To bring it full circle I'm happy Valve is finally branching out because I think it gives them not only more options but more leverage and helps them expand their vision for their games going forward. While Jaffe certainly has the right to his preferences and can make games for whomever he wants, would it maybe be better if he expanded and took advantage of some of the options XBL might offer?

Just food for thought
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Old 12-02-2010   #2
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I'd just like to say that in speaking with Jaffe a few times, it's pretty clear that his mindset is more personal. It was Sony that initially gave him his start, and obviously, it's partially due to Sony (along with his own efforts) that made him a lot of money. He basically built his entire career with that one company and he only has good things to say about any relationship he has had with Sony.

Valve is a little different, I think. Those guys have been heavy PC elitists since...well, forever, and people like Gabe Newell denounced Sony and the PS3 on multiple occasions (before he hit the Sony stage at E3, of course). Jaffe never does that. He doesn't denounce; he only supports. And I don't think it's any real surprise, considering his history with Sony.
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Old 12-02-2010   #3
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I'd just like to say that in speaking with Jaffe a few times, it's pretty clear that his mindset is more personal. It was Sony that initially gave him his start, and obviously, it's partially due to Sony (along with his own efforts) that made him a lot of money. He basically built his entire career with that one company and he only has good things to say about any relationship he has had with Sony.

Valve is a little different, I think. Those guys have been heavy PC elitists since...well, forever, and people like Gabe Newell denounced Sony and the PS3 on multiple occasions (before he hit the Sony stage at E3, of course). Jaffe never does that. He doesn't denounce; he only supports. And I don't think it's any real surprise, considering his history with Sony.
I wasn't trying to draw exact parallels, for what it's worth.

Valve is different in that Valve was strictly PC for the most part until they started branching out with 360 (they licensed some games on consoles before that), so the difference is notable but not exceptional.

Either way the question is whether or not we respect that preference both ways, among other things. Yeah, Valve was critical of the PS3 when it first launched, but they've expanded beyond their personal preference (PC) into 360 and now PS3 with Portal 2. I personally think that's good for the industry, especially since Valve is a top tier developer.

Jaffe is also a top tier designer, he's made some of the most notable games in the Playstation library. Preference or not I think it would be good for him, and his new company, to branch out.
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Old 12-02-2010   #4
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Everyone has a preference, it's only natural devs do too.
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Old 12-02-2010   #5
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Everyone has a preference, it's only natural devs do too.
I'm not disputing that.
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Old 12-03-2010   #6
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Originally Posted by Spartan119 View Post
I wasn't trying to draw exact parallels, for what it's worth.

Valve is different in that Valve was strictly PC for the most part until they started branching out with 360 (they licensed some games on consoles before that), so the difference is notable but not exceptional.

Either way the question is whether or not we respect that preference both ways, among other things. Yeah, Valve was critical of the PS3 when it first launched, but they've expanded beyond their personal preference (PC) into 360 and now PS3 with Portal 2. I personally think that's good for the industry, especially since Valve is a top tier developer.

Jaffe is also a top tier designer, he's made some of the most notable games in the Playstation library. Preference or not I think it would be good for him, and his new company, to branch out.
I think personal preferences are generally respected by everyone. It's just that Valve deliberately antagonised an entire community of gamers by issuing unfair and disparaging remarks about a console they didn't give a fair shot, that's downright unprofessional. I think Valve is to blame for any acrimony between them and PS3 owners.

Jaffe's situation is quite different because his company is much smaller than Valve. He needs the funding and support of a big publisher like Sony. It probably helps that he has built his career within that company, and must have decent relations with the decision makers, which helps him get the time and space to create a game to his liking. Plus, after reading his blog and watching some videos, it's clear that he has a bit of emotional attachment with Sony and the people he's worked with for years, so I wouldn't be surprised if he continues to develop PS3 exclusives after the three game deal with Sony is over, assuming that Twisted Metal would be financially successful.
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Old 12-03-2010   #7
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I think personal preferences are generally respected by everyone. It's just that Valve deliberately antagonised an entire community of gamers by issuing unfair and disparaging remarks about a console they didn't give a fair shot, that's downright unprofessional. I think Valve is to blame for any acrimony between them and PS3 owners.

.
Valve's comments are/were spot on IMO. The PS3 is all about power, not elegance. Cell was never even intended for game design (it was tooled for game design for PS3 but still), it derives its power by brute force calculation and that's why so many developers, including Valve, had a very legitimate problem with it early on. It's simply not designed for games. Cell was created as a multi-functional processor to be used primarily in servers (that's still where Cell is used most, in server applications).

Were they professional about it? Well, no. Did they have a legitimate gripe? Yeah.

Fortunately Valve has branched out, and gone beyond their preference. They've adapted beyond their personal likes and dislikes, or more accurately they've adapted beyond what Newell initially preferred.

Now you get Portal 2, if you're a PS3-only owner.

Isn't that good for the industry? That's kinda what I'm trying to get at here.

Oh and here's a gif of Gabe just because, well.... because fat people are funny:

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Old 12-03-2010   #8
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Originally Posted by David Jaffe
Holy f**k, Destructoid Xbox only owners out in full force against me.
That's the problem right there, that people react with anger to a Sony developer talking about his good relationship with Sony. The Console Wars are so dumb, just as they always have been and as they likely always will be unless we go all universal console in the future.

Developers being open about their preferences and feelings is a good thing and it's always annoying when people react so stupidly, as if their ideal scenario is one where all we get from them are PR-managed soundbites.
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Old 12-03-2010   #9
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At this point, no, I don't think Jaffe should "branch" out. The best games are often exclusive, and there's a reason. I really think more talented developers should stick with their console of preference, and just make the best product they possibly can. More great exclusive titles for all platforms would also help to boost hardware sales.

Polyphony should never go multiplatform. Neither should Naughty Dog. If Epic wants to keep making Gears for the 360 only, fine. Great. I want the best of the best and "branching out" has only caused multiplats that just aren't as good as they could've been had the developer remained in its own comfort zone.
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Old 12-03-2010   #10
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Originally Posted by Spartan119 View Post
Valve's comments are/were spot on IMO. The PS3 is all about power, not elegance. Cell was never even intended for game design (it was tooled for game design for PS3 but still), it derives its power by brute force calculation and that's why so many developers, including Valve, had a very legitimate problem with it early on. It's simply not designed for games. Cell was created as a multi-functional processor to be used primarily in servers (that's still where Cell is used most, in server applications).

Were they professional about it? Well, no. Did they have a legitimate gripe? Yeah.

Fortunately Valve has branched out, and gone beyond their preference. They've adapted beyond their personal likes and dislikes, or more accurately they've adapted beyond what Newell initially preferred.

Now you get Portal 2, if you're a PS3-only owner.

Isn't that good for the industry? That's kinda what I'm trying to get at here.

Oh and here's a gif of Gabe just because, well.... because fat people are funny:

Sure, the PS3 was hard to develop for and people did have issues with it, but saying that it isn't for gaming is a bit weird, considering it has the the best looking games out of all the consoles, but I'll take your word on it since you know a lot more about software development than I do. Anyway, I distinctly remember a comment of his where he said that the PS3 is a waste of everybody's time and that Sony should scrap it. If you think that comment was spot on then I guess I should stop "wasting" so many hours playing the various games on it, since this piece of crap should never have been released. So thanks, Spartan and Gabe.
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