Quote:
Originally posted by Voice
1. By definition it isn't a theocracy, but by that definition the only difference is that our government isn't directly run by religious leaders.
2. However, our leader did use morality and religion to catch the ear of all the religious followers in the nation, and they voted for him because they view him as a godly man, someone who shares their morals, which stem from the bible and it's teachings.
3. So in the sense that we have a President who is strong in his religious beliefs.....and is wanting to ammend the constitution to adhere to those beliefs, and force those beliefs on a part of our population who doesn't share those beliefs, we're coming close to having a theocracy.
4. On the other hand, you have people like me, who don't follow a certain religion....I believe in god, and I know right from wrong. Religion doesn't make you moral automatically, that's been proven time and time again within the catholic church.
5. Not being religious also doesn't automatically make you an immoral person.
6. As far as The goings on of America's past and all that concerning the founding fathers.....Maybe I wasn't clear enough in seperating my ideas back there. I meant The founding fathers had slaves. Singular thought.
7. Then I meant that the other people, and possibly the founding fathers as well, but not certainly.....tortured slaves....raped women...stole land.....massacred Native Americans....and if anyone tries to contest these FACTS....then it should be known that you are trying to re-write history. Keep in mind that all these men believed themselves to be very moral people....they were men of the bible.
8. We didn't discover America, WE TOOK IT. Plain and simple.
9. And as far as trying to tell me that "yeah, they had slaves...but they didn't torture them or anything...." that's bullshit right there, don't even TRY to tell me that slavery isnt torture.....they treated them like animals....when they didn't do what they were supposed to do...they were whipped, beat, and sometimes killed.
10. Any person who had slaves, tortured them...PERIOD.
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1. What in the blue hell are you talking about?
2. Bush did not capture the ear of all religious people in this country. Not even close. While he probably had a larger percentage of the religious vote, I can cite both anecdotal evidence and historical precedent that directly refutes that claim. Many, many religious people voted for John Kerry.
3. You still don't understand the definition of a theocracy, and you can say "we're becoming a theocracy" all you want, but mindless repetition of the same groundless litany does nothing but waste our time.
To assert that the desire to pass a federal ammendment banning gay marriage likens us to a theocracy is absurd, especially when you look at theocracies all over the world, and the difference between their laws and freedoms and ours.
The day someone forces you to pray to God on a daily basis, or jails you for eating shellfish, working on a Sunday, or eating fish on Friday, you'll have a point.
4. I don't think anyone asserts that religion automatically makes you moral. I don't recall anyone asserting that being religious makes you moral, or that not being religious makes you a hedonistic, amoral *******. So, I'm confused why this was brought up.
5. See number 4.
6. No, you implied that the same religious people who founded our country raped indian women. You made a bunch of bullshit generalizations about Americans of the late 1700s and early 1800s, and quite ignorant, hateful ones at that. Don't shit on my face and tell me it's ambrosia, son.
7. Yes, some people did some very horrible things. However, these horrible things happen under any social system, be it secular or religious, socialist or capitalist.
If you'd like to talk about bad people doing bad things in the name of religion, and effectively enforcing a theocracy upon their people, you should bring up the Inquisition or the Crusades, though even then religion was little more than an excuse to murder people who didn't agree with your worldview; therefore, religion isn't the problem, the people who corrupt it are.
8. Please don't tell me you think "Native Americans" are actually native, or innocent. We took American land just as indians tried to take it from each other. They warred with each other, they even created regional alliances to more effectively terminate other indians who didn't believe in the same gods and whatnot.
They're also not native, as basic anthropology demonstrates that they migrated from Asia. "Native Americans" are no more native than we are. If they're natives, so were our forefathers.
The self-apologist "Americans persecuted the Native American" shit gets old after awhile. We fought the indians for THE land, not THEIR land, not OUR land. We won, and not because we were evil and devious and dishonorable, but because we had better technology, greater numbers, and better organization.
Far too many liberals want to re-write history to portray all indians as innocent victims of brutal western imperialism. Indians were just like westerners, in that some were good, some were bad, and neither side of the war was 'righteous'.
9. Once again, you're attempting to demonize every person who had a slave as an evil, vicious, violent man, and you're implying that all white men who had black people working for them held those black people as slaves. This particular brand of ignorance really pisses me off.
I suppose you think the Civil War was about slavery, don't you?
10. And so, what? Anyone who had slaves was an evil person? Our founding fathers are evil, vile men? If so, why do you proclaim to want to uphold the constitution they created?
Slavery was way ****ing wrong, and horrible, and at the time a universal concept, one embraced by black men themselves. Remember, we didn't go to Africa, conquer the continent, and steal all the people. Colonialists BOUGHT slaves from BLACK slavetraders, and thus 'black' people share just as much blame for slavery as 'white' people.